The hands of God

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My children go along to catechism classes. Sometimes on a Sunday I go with my family to Mass at the church of Sant'Ilario.

I'm not a practising Catholic, but I think I could define myself as a believer, one who sympathises for Jesus.

It's a thing for myself. It's private.

If I were to believe in Odin or in Buddha it would anyway be something that is relevant solely to myself.

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Whatever I believe in should not interfere with the State, its institutions, its laws, the press, satirical cartoons, the political Parties, with science. In fact with all the rest.

During “Enchantments” I show a brief clip from the film Submission, the film for which Theo Van Gogh was killed. Anyone can see this film via the Internet using a P2P application like eMule or Kazaa. I’ve done this to affirm the liberty of expression, which is not acceptable to the fundamentalists of any religion.

If I could, I would get rid of the 8 per thousand {part of the income tax that is allocated to things like faith communities}, the crucifixes in public places, religious symbols in political Parties, the use of faith for electoral, personal or economic purposes.

I would abolish every influence of mullahcardinalrabbis on the State and I would punish with really severe laws, incitement to religious hatred.I just can’t believe, even by making a terrific effort, that there can be chosen peoples (and the others, what are they?), peoples submitted to their own religions, that a God justifies violence of man against man. No. I can’t manage to believe that.

And now? Well, I hope that the Muslims have a bit of sense of humour (for the sake of my own safety, you know) and that Cardinal Ruini has the sense of the ridiculous and that he will abstain from making electoral declarations (for the sake of the safety of the Italian people).

Posted by Beppe Grillo at 01:22 PM in | Comments (13) | Comments in Italian (translated) Post a comment | Sign up | Send to a friend | | GrilloNews | listen_it_it.gifListen | TrackBack (0) |
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The masses feel powerful if they all believe the same thing, shout in unison, raise fists in unison, but isn't it better being a free thinker and able to travel where others cannot in the search for ultimate reality? We have feelings at cathetel which suggest our creator was neither random physics nor a powerful entity, but Ranchers from another dimension who come to us through portals. When you are feeling really isolated because you don't belong to a marching mass of lemmings, be also happy that you may not have to contend with seeing what is truly unusual in the history of man's apparent creation. Let's hope you believe in angels, for then we have something in common.

Posted by: Amyobala Key | January 10, 2008 09:13 PM


Jesus?
Check on this web site : http://www.luigicascioli.it/home_eng.php
This Italian man wrote a book who could change something in our blindly-gulped down mind-settings...
Bye,
Vito

Posted by: Vito Cazzorla | February 10, 2006 06:11 PM


Dear Marcia,

I noticed that you addressed two of the points I raised to Beppe and I fear there might have been some misunderstanding on your side.
On the issue of banning Salami, I was merely giving an equivalent example to what happened in the UK, where a Muslim man managed to get an ice cream banned from a fast food chain, because the twirls resembled too much the arabic name for Allah. You may find this excessive, but it did happen. The point I was trying to raise with this example is where do we draw the line when defining actions aimed at stirring religious hatred, not whether Muslims find Salami blasphemous or not.

On the second issue, I'm sorry that your friend had such a negative experience in a hospital, but I'd like to point out that italian hospitals generally do not call people for prayers and force pork meat down their throats, as in the unfortunate case of your friend, just like Muslim states generally do not forbid the public practice of other religions but Islam, as in the unfortunate case of Saudi Arabia. I would never dream of labelling Islam intolerant based on this example, just as I would never dream of seeing the cross as a symbol of oppression based on a badly managed hospital.
Again, the point I was raising with Beppe was whether his willingness to remove cruxifices from public places would include other religious symbols, such as the Crescent Moon or the hijab, as well. In this case he would be assuming the same stance taken by the French government, which has been highly criticised both by Muslims and non-Muslims alike. Otherwise he would need to explain why he considers the Christian cross more offensive than other religious symbols. I feel that this point did not come across clearly enough in his original message and I'd like to know Beppe's stance on this particular issue.

I hope this clarifies my questions a bit more!


Regards,

Alex

Posted by: Alex Martin | February 9, 2006 11:55 AM


Yeah.
Go tell this to those Ayatollah, Popes or whatever religious leaders with the full pockets.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | February 9, 2006 01:02 AM


As I wrote in the italian blog, I think that religion is a private affair between God and the individual conscience, not a affair of state!

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | February 8, 2006 09:29 PM


Religious people are 80% crooked because their belief is obscured by econimical interest.
A lot of those pigs think also they are out of reach from the law: think about all those boys raped thru the years without even thinking about asking for help because they were threatened by all those clerics, or worse, not believed for because of the clout generated by those personalities.
I believe in God but not for this I have to shove it down other people's throat.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | February 8, 2006 06:37 PM


@ George De Stefano
I agree 100% with you!

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | February 8, 2006 04:40 PM


Believers and religious leaders certainly have the right to express their views on public matters. Unfortunately, they rarely stop there. Whether it's the Catholic Church, the Islamic clergy or Protestant evangelicals, it seems their true objective is to impose their sectarian beliefs on those of us who do not share them. You don't approve of abortion? Fine, don't have one. Criticize abortion if you must. But it never stops there, does it? Here in the USA we see on a daily basis the dreadful influence of religious sectarians on public policy and government, whether it's the climate of hate being whipped up against gay people, the eroding of a woman's right to have an abortion, the denigration of science in favor of religious supernaturalism, etc. etc. In Italy it appears the Vatican, led by Ratzinger and Ruini, intend to roll back the advances of secularism and modernity and, if not criminalize, at least stigmatize abortion, homosexuality, even divorce. These clerics are trying to impose a religious litmus test on public policy and that must be resisted. (And it's hardly surprising that the Vatican finds most of its political allies on the Right.) I'm with Beppe on this. We need a new Enlightment and a renewed struggle against religious obscurantism and clerical meddling.

Posted by: George De Stefano | February 8, 2006 03:49 PM


Dear Mr Beppe,

There is someone telling us:

Whom we can vote for
Whom we can elect
Whom we should have diplomatic relations with
Which countries we should be friends with
What kind of horrendous democracy we should have
We should be liberated
100,000 of people must be killed
Our culture/tradition/religion/agriculture/libraries/museums /histological & architecture site be destroyed
We should privatise our rich natural resources
We should privatise health services/water/gas/electricity
We should not increase wages of our people but the privatised services should increase ………………
…………………………….
What we should find humorous (I do not find Italian comic dressed in Muslim dressing telling jokes about bombs or the “pornography of war” – (great phrase by R Fisk journalist) funny
We should accept high precision fighter jet bomb dropped with maximum collateral damage “legal”
We should be grateful for western crumbs of aid with tentacle strangling our people
How we should dress
What we should be taught
…………………………………………………………………etc.

Basta!

great quote from Stephen Biko ": "Not only are whites kicking us; they are telling us how to react to being kicked."

To address the issue raised by Alex:

Should we ban Salami in Italy as inciting religious hatred, depictions of pigs?

Many scientist are not only Muslims but “work” with/on pig – in medical/scientific research, animal husbandry etc.

The presence of cruxifices,

I was visiting a friend in a hospital. There is not only a cross present in each room but twice a day calls are made for the mass and the religious service sent to all rooms by speakers. The person in the room was asked what religion the individual followed. The reason given: for dietary purposes. When the food was served, the person who said Islam was given prosciutto not offered but given!

Posted by: Marcia Visanji | February 8, 2006 01:02 PM


Hi there,
in Italy something strange is happening: someone has finally accused a priest of abusing of popular credibility. To know more about it please look in : www.luigicascioli.it , "il processo".
Compliments to Beppe Grillo for his blog, we need more like-minded people like him.
Thanks.

Posted by: Salvatore Fazia | February 7, 2006 07:21 PM


Dear Beppe,

I agree with some of your comments on the current controversy over those satirical cartoons.
However, I am a bit perplexed by some of the other comments that you made.
You state that religion should not interfere in politics. Yet at the same time you affirm freedom of expression. How is freedom of expression compatible with preventing people driven by religious ideals (such as Cardinals, Mullahs or Rabbis) to express their opinions on political matters?

Another point: you state that you would be in favour of removing cruxifices from public places. Does this ban extend to other religious symbols as well, such as the Star of David, the Yin-Yang symbol or the Crescent moon? What about the scarf that Muslim women wear in public? That is also seen as a powerful religious symbol. Should it be banned, like it was in France? If not, why only some symbols, but not others?


Finally: you would punish with severe laws whoever incites religious hatred. What does constitute religious hatred to you? To most muslims, the satirical cartoons published on several newspapers constitute incitement to religious hatred against Islam and some have been calling for very severe punishments for this. The presence of cruxifices in public places constitutes a grave offence to some of them. Even depictions of pigs are sometimes considered highly offensive, as was recently the case in the UK. Should we ban Salami in Italy as inciting religious hatred? Where do you draw a line?

I think it is important you clarify these points, as your statement risks coming across as too ambiguous otherwise.

Regards,

Alex

Posted by: Alex Martin | February 7, 2006 07:12 PM


second

Posted by: chenzino2 | February 7, 2006 04:24 PM


If you would like download the movie from the web, here the link:

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/9287-Theo_van_Gogh_submission_movie.html

Here the link for the movie and the codec.

- movie
http://homepage.mac.com/keld_bach/FileSharing25.html
- codec
http://www.own-age.com/vids/XviD-04102002-1.exe

Beppe

Posted by: Giuseppe Latino | February 7, 2006 02:36 PM


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