Saddam

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Is the killing of an assassin, assassination? Can the punishment for a crime be applied with the same crime? Rape with rape, theft with theft, death with death? To condemn the murder and then apply murder by law is an enchantment. A contradiction of the human mind.
A vendetta, not law. Saddam has been hanged. Condemned by the Iraqi people. But no one believes it. The hands of the executioner were Iraqi, but the executioner was Bush. Saddam should have been condemned to life in prison.
He should have grown old in prison. Lost his haughtiness. With the execution, he was gifted a dignity that he did not have. A made-in-Texas greatness.
Now Saddam is a martyr and in his death we need to remember the war with Iran financed by the USA. The good Saddam, ally of the West against Khomeini. The Saddam who was secular and supporting the West.
Then he set up on his own and this was an intolerable insult to American democracy. That of the 2 million prisoners and arms of death. And of the control of the Persian Gulf.
If Saddam was a criminal, then so are a few Heads of State with seats in the United Nations. Why Saddam and them not? Oil. The whole world declared the first war against Iraq because of the invasion of Kuwait and its oil wells. In Darfur hundreds of thousands of people have died. No one has lifted a finger. In Chechnya not even one tall building has remained standing. No one has lifted a finger. The hypocrisy of the just oily, western death sentence.
Was Saddam a criminal? Did he exterminate the Kurds using gas? Did he kill those who opposed him? Yes, definitely. But when the war in Iraq finishes, it’ll be possible to do the accounting of all the dead. And there will be many, many more than those attributed to Saddam’s regime. Will someone be strung up for the 40deathsadaythatnolongerhitthenews?
Will they be sentenced to paying a fine, handing over money, to ask for pardon? Saddam has paid his account with dignity. Hiroshima, the Gulags, Tibet will never be paid for by anyone.

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Hello there,
What is happening, a Couple of regular folks kill 3 people and 1 baby in Erba?
Now they have confessed and are showing no remorse what so ever “The baby was driving me crazy”.
What the Exemplary Italian Law should do about this two?
Very good, let’s take the Italian System as the Guiding Light and take it to the UN, while telling the World “Hey it works for us”.
Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | January 14, 2007 05:46 PM


you've got what happend to saddam bang on.
and you've got it right, no-one will pay for all the deaths in iraq. now saddam is a martyr and more people will die in his name, both iraqi, american, british and whoever else is there.

Posted by: oliver summers | January 11, 2007 05:50 PM


Suggesting reading "Red State,Blue State:defending the Liberal Jesus and Blue State Morality from the Red State Religion and Hypocrisy, by John Grevstand,shortly by statistic , the Red State which are the one like Texas with fundamentalist christians and with death penalty in the U.S. are the states with more violence,crime is higher then the Blue States,that tell me that violence bread more violence,ciao

Posted by: eva kulnura | January 9, 2007 01:09 AM


Of course Enrico,
These were/are charismatic persons found at the right place at the right time..!!!
But I am afraid that, with all this advanced brain washing we are all exposed to at the moment, we will see less and less of such people...

Posted by: paola filinesi | January 8, 2007 10:12 PM


Paola, there is also the Tutu/Mandela/Gandhi approach to reconciliation. It is hard for most of us to grasp, but this is the most civilized solution to this problem. It worked wonders in South Africa, but most of us prefer to follow the teachings of killers while ignoring the example of the saints amongst us.

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | January 8, 2007 09:34 PM


Prince,
I would want him dead as this is the first human reaction that comes to mind if someone has implemented so much suffering to other human beings...!!!

But if we manage to think properly, after first anger subsides, you will see that death is not always a punishment....
In Saddam's case he is now a martyr...According to his religion it was the best way to die...
He went to paradise....

Life imprisonment (no faking and pardon after a while etc) limited facilities, I mean real imprisonment, I mean "Gulag Archipelago"....
This for me is punishment..!!

Taking a life just satisfies momentary anger; continious punishment creates fear and hopefully prevents prospective tyrants from repeating same atrocious acts.....

Posted by: paola filinesi | January 8, 2007 08:56 PM


Paola:

Let's imagine that for some lucky shot, the UN, the Coreans, the USA or some other country or organism gets its hands on Kim Il Sung.

That guy is considered if not like, worse than Saddam.

What you think the court would do to him?

And, also, in case he would be condemned to die as well, what do you think the public would feel about it?

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | January 8, 2007 01:53 PM


Prince,
Yes, I agree with you, people of course are different and of course laws are harsher because of many reasons.
However, countries develop and hopefully some laws and practices will be revised...!!

Enrico,
It was good of you to post that article!!
Although the reason it was written was completely different to our argument here (the Death Penalty), it was very relevant.
Besides, that's why we are here...Italy is our first priority but since the globe is ruled by Super Powers we should also be in current to what happens elsewhere that affects us...:o)

Posted by: paola filinesi | January 7, 2007 10:44 PM


Giacomo: I can easily explain you what is the added value of the issue, at least for me.
I didn't read this article, and Enrico gave me the possibility to read it.
That's all.

Posted by: raffaella biferale | January 7, 2007 07:38 PM


Well well well, I must have pushed the right button, and therefore I must deserve whatever is coming to me.
Mea culpa, mea culpa, the issue seams to be re-broadcasting someone else thoughts or comments on a specific issues.
Everyone is attaching his/her name in the comment column before posting it, and although plagiarism is accepted as long as the original writer is acknowledge everybody lived happily ever after.
As far as I am concerned, just posting someone else thinking or reasoning just because is the same as mine doesn’t make much sense, since it is reinforcing my view on the subject, and therefore I am not presented with any different point of view than my own although maybe better exposed or more articulated.
Coming to this blog, what is the added value to the discussion going on here?
Mr. Rossi has the same opinion has this Mr. Margolis?
Mr. Rossi is aware of American Journalist of the thinking?
What is the added value?
Am I to extrapolate from this article that Mr. Rossi is in the same line of thinking?
I thought the idea was to add value and positive proposition to Mr. Grillo’s blog and hopefully convince Italians one way or the other with convincing arguments, not just cut and paste some article from S.Francisco.
Other than these reason, a very convincing cut and paste job I may add.
Thanks for the compelling and well written I may add article.
Thanks again

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | January 7, 2007 06:50 PM


Giacomo Chiametti: a Blog is an open space, why shouldn't Enrico quote the very interesting article from Eric Margolis?
I don't understand the reason of your complaint.

Posted by: raffaella biferale | January 7, 2007 06:19 PM


Giacomo, the name Eric in the English language is masculine and therefore Eric Margolis is not a woman. Please read with more accuracy. I thought this article was very interesting, but obviously you disagreed.

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | January 7, 2007 06:06 PM


Mr. Rossi
Hello there, to my understanding blogging or commenting doesn’t mean facilitate the spreading of somebody else ideas or comments.
This lady is well known and re-broadcasting her comments just because is in line with your thinking, sincerely is not helping no one.
I would appreciate your thinking, your comment, your solutions, your positive input and not a rehash of an American Commentator that pays taxes to the American Government that send his/her soldier to dye in Iraq.
If you blog with your real name and you are an Italian Citizen, please stand up be counted and make a positive impact on this blog, otherwise please spear me.
Although I am not sure about everyone else but this comments are available to us already.
Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | January 7, 2007 05:12 PM


Today's article by US journalist Eric Margolis confirms my suspicions:

"Lynching won't help U.S.

The bungling of Saddam's trial and execution hurts America's reputation.

Just when it seemed the Bush-Cheney Administration couldn't drag America's reputation any lower, it did.

The U.S. is now being rebuked around the globe for delivering President Saddam Hussein of Iraq to a Shiite lynch mob.

Washington professed surprise and denied blame for this disgusting, gruesome atrocity. But Saddam had been under U.S. guard in a U.S.-run prison in the U.S.-run Green Zone. What did U.S. officials think the mob of U.S.-backed Shiite thugs intended to do with Saddam? Give him a parade?

The United States has already been heavily criticized for stage-managing the kangaroo court that condemned Saddam. He was hurriedly executed to prevent him from revealing embarrassing details about the involvement in Saddam's crimes of the U.S., Britain, and Arab oil monarchs.

Ironically, Saddam's courage and dignity on the gallows will reinforce his claim to martyrdom and make him the hero in death that he was not in life.

By contrast, the UN's new South Korean secretary general, Ban Ki-moon, who was shoe-horned into office by Washington, shamefully supported Saddam's execution even though the UN has long opposed the death penalty. An inauspicious start for a timid yes-man.

Following this latest violation of international law and basic civilized behaviour, the Bush-Cheney administration is widely expected to announce plans to deploy another 20,000 troops to Iraq. This will be George Bush's petulant reply to the bipartisan Iraq Study Group's wise proposal that all U.S. combat forces withdraw from Iraq within a year.

Senior American generals charged with Iraq, including Gen. John Abazaid and Gen. George Casey, have openly disagreed with Bush's plans for a "surge" in U.S. troop deployment. These able officers told the media they didn't need more troops. They warned additional U.S. troops would deter Iraq's Shia regime from developing its own security forces and keep it dependant on the U.S.

These statements were a shocker. Generals are not supposed to publicly disagree with their commander-in-chief. Gen. Casey is expected to be fired soon and replaced by a yes man. Gen. Abazaid is retiring early, in disgust, say friends.

Casey and Abazaid follow another fine, courageous officer, former Army Chief of Staff Eric Shinseki, who chose duty to America over career. He was forced to retire by the White House after publicly stating a minimum of 300,000 U.S. troops would be needed to pacify Iraq. The 140,000 U.S. troops currently in Iraq are stretched to the breaking point and hard pressed to defend their own bases and vulnerable supply lines.

Many U.S. senior military officers privately say it is small wonder Bush, who styles himself the "war president," is so deficient in military experience and knowledge. A few months in the Texas Air National Guard evading wartime draft certainly did not prepare him to wage two wars.

Good, responsible presidents know when to listen to their generals, and when to retreat from stalemated or lost wars. If Bush does send thousands more troops to Iraq, he will be risking more American lives in a desperate, 11th-hour political gamble to show voters he has a new plan to resolve the horrible mess in Iraq he created.

Twenty or thirty thousand more U.S. troops thrown into the cauldron of Iraq will make little military difference. One hundred fifty thousand or more might, but the U.S. has run out of soldiers.

If Bush pours more troops into this -- a lost war -- he will fall into the trap of many bad gamblers who double up their bets in a reckless effort to recoup previous losses.

Bush continues ignoring his generals while still heeding the siren song of the neo-cons around him. Their goal is not advancing America's interests, but totally destroying Iraq, then Iran.

Sen. John McCain, the current Republican presidential front-runner, has joined Bush and Cheney in urging more troops be sent to Iraq. All three have clearly lost touch with reality and their nation's basic values.

Call it Saddam's curse."

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | January 7, 2007 01:41 PM


Prince: I agree with you that in the middle east the culture and traditions are very different than ours but walls and bars at the windows are there because of the high rate of poverty in the population, compared with the low number of richs. I saw the same in Africa and everywhere in the third world.
That has nothing to do with muslims but only with poverty.
As for death penalty, once again: I know that in those countries the death penalty is part of their culture, I don't want to argue about it, but I don't live in Iraq or Egypt, I live here in a western country and I can't agree with it. Every day thousand of prisoners are executed in the whole world (USA included) and I'm sad and pissed off for each of them. I think that NOBODY of us can decide if somebody else DESERVES to die.

Posted by: raffaella biferale | January 6, 2007 11:45 AM


Giovanni,

I know Pannella is a sincere and honest man that always try to fight injustice. Even if he does mistakes, I think he still deserve our respect for what he did during his all life.

Posted by: lorenzo federico | January 5, 2007 08:33 PM


Paola:

The last time I was in Middle East it was in 1993 and I can tell you that I was surprised to see 3 meters walls and bars at the windows (without Prada and Ipod).

I have also to say that if one day I for some reason I would have to go there again, I would be happy to do it because I met some good guys, like in any other part of the world.

I think you can agree with me that reality there is a little bit different than in Europe or USA because the cultural level and the traditions are very different (I don't mean better or worse, just different).

The same people I was dealing with, told me that criminals are very different from what we are used to see in our country and that implies that those people are more fierce and dangerous: this is why the capital punishment there is considered the right thing to do for this kind of criminals.
If Saddam has been condemned for killing "just" the kurds at this point doesn't constitute a difference for me because:

1) one, two or 10 people murdered would be enough to condemn the man
2) Even if Saddam has not been condemned for other crimes at this point it does not make any difference because he is now dead.

About Pannella's thirst strike, I would like to ask him why he decided to do it only now instead of a couple of weeks earlier, when there was the case of this guy in Florida that had his execution botched and had to suffer an agony of 35 minutes before finally dying.

Pannella did not learn to choose who would give the world the real inspiration for a protest to end the death penalty.
The episode of Tony Negri clearly explains what I'm talking about.
I think is better for Pannella to have a sandwich and a glass of beer before emarrassing himself more than he is used to.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | January 5, 2007 07:05 PM


Hello everyone, and throughout my renting and ravings I don’t intentionally mean to point at no-one and I use my particular euphemisms to give the idea I want to expose.
So either Prada bags or blackberry I could care less who has it or doesn’t have it, the idea was that everyone individuals relates to issues based on his/her environment and therefore it is utterly improper and irrational to make statements and make choices that don’t belongs to you.
Anyone can say I don’t approve of this and that, I am pro this and against that but to go as far as saying all the world should ban the Death Penalty based on my saying so, I am sorry folks I can’t compute this.
And as far as religion goes, separation of Church and State has been established even in Italy with the Vatican inside the Country of Italy (Since 1979 I believe)?
Am I missing something or Italian Citizens has spoken and do not approve of the Church interfering with Government and the Law!
Now having sat, every individuals can and should rationalize his/her own standing bases on his/her personal beliefs, but going off on a tangent ask for a Moratorium from the UN, sorry I can’t compute this one either.
This is what I believe in “Personal Responsibility” if anyone can’t take the consequences of his/her actions how do anyone expect to be trusted on any matter?
Just look at Italian Politicians, do they have any credibility?
Your opinion is as good as mine!
Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | January 5, 2007 06:06 PM


Hi everyone.
Obviously everyone has is own opinion.
The intention of this blog is to ponder and reflect about these topics, and, eventually, also to change beliefs and convictions. I think that’s what confrontation and bringing together ideas is all about.
Thanks

Posted by: lorenzo federico | January 5, 2007 05:50 PM


Giacomo,I do not own a Prada bag,not a Blakberry,I do eat blueberry they are just in season and a farm next to me sell them,and I try the best I can to support local farm and industry, here in Australia,and it is getting harder and harder,because as we all know everything is made in China nowadays,I buy thing that I really need ( I spent six months in India backpacking it is surprising the things we can do without) the bag I use is few years old and will last me until will fall apart,I do find your comment interesting,but please refrain with pontification you do not know anything about me and the other bloggers and my live and theirs, and we do not know anything about your,so speculating about it is worthless by the way living on a farm,going around with a Prada bag would look utterly ridiculous no, hard feeling ciao

Posted by: eva kulnura | January 5, 2007 01:48 AM


Prince,
I am not sure I understand what you mean,
but what I wanted to say was that my family was not wealthy ...I am not accustomed to Prada and iPods (and definitely not in the 60's...:o))...
I lived in a very common neibourghood of Cairo and my friends were Arab children we played in the street together.
Muslims are Mulsims; Egyptians you could say are a bit less fanatic that other Arab nationals, but they are still very religious people.
I got to know the more wealthy ones (really rich Saudies, Iraqies, and Iranians etc.) much later while working for the Bank and I can tell you that, like every one else, they adapt very quickly to the "facilities" of money....

I will not argue with you over Saddam's hanging because we have a pact over a glass of wine...!!!

But I do disagree with Giacomo on his argument about this SPECIFIC law in which ever country it's still practiced.

And, of course I agree with Enrico,that the court's decision was dictated because, it is ridiculous to have a dictator who has massacred thousands of persons,stole,etc and sentence him to death only for the killing of 140 Shiites.
This will create further religious problems and this is what they are after....

I only wish I am wrong...

Posted by: paola filinesi | January 4, 2007 11:21 PM


Paola:
I think that when you were in Middle East you saw the high walls that were enclosing the houses that were owned by people a little bit above average income.
This is because people's habits over there are a little bit different from what we are used to in the Western Countries.
With this I'm not looking down to anybody, it's just the culture there.
Whenever you need to defend your stuff over there, you need to have a little bit of more ruthlessness, not because you like to inflict pain but because you have to defend yourself.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | January 4, 2007 10:41 PM


Giacomo,
Many laws that have been voted and accepted by citizens in various countries,with time passing,have either been forgotten or not put to practice any more as being out dated.
They exist only because nobody cares to withdraw them.
Here we are talking about a law that concerns human life!

Muslim laws also dictates that if a thief is captured and found guilty he has his hand cut off...how many muslim countries do you know that practice that law???

As for my Civility I am proud to tell you that I've lived for the most of my adolescent years in Egypt and have been working for a long time with Arab nationals, so I do believe I know a thing or two about their way of thinking and how difficult it is for them to survive.
And mind you,my friend,it's only the power of money(through oil) that gave them some respect to the so called Super Powers....because this is the driving force nowadays...and we could spare the morals about ethics and democracy etc....:o(

Posted by: paola filinesi | January 4, 2007 10:16 PM


Fate Vobis ;))

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | January 4, 2007 09:57 PM


Ora pro nobis;-)))))

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | January 4, 2007 08:00 PM


Giovanni, Amen!

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | January 4, 2007 07:15 PM


Of course!
And you know why?
Because you are talking about "Il Principe"
;)))

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | January 4, 2007 07:09 PM


Giovanni, "Christian or not, the world is better now without that dictator." Should we then agree with Macchiavelli: the end justifies the means? XVI Century thinking applied to the XXI Century? I think not!

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | January 4, 2007 07:06 PM


Christian or not, the world is better now without that dictator.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | January 4, 2007 06:18 PM


Giacomo, nice rant but no cake for you. You are straying off topic. The discussion here is the hanging of Saddam by a deeply Christian foreign government (don't kid yourself that a legitimate Iraqi government executed him as a result of a legitimate trial) and religion has to be included in this bloody mess.

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | January 4, 2007 04:54 PM


Hello everyone and I am not justifying the killing or slaughtering of no one, I am just stating the fact that every nations and their populations has the right to implement and apply the Death Penalty if they choose to do so.
It is also utterly incomprehensible how some of you can, unequivocally and unilaterally argue against any Sovran Nation against the Death Penalty based solely on you life references (Which means your way of life, your religion, your perception and experiences?).
Where are you folks coming from, or should I say which crusade are you trying to justify with this subject. First George.W goes of on the tangent Crusade of spreading Democracy waging war on the axes of Evil with the life of soldiers, guns and Billions of money, than the Religion Crusade (Folks Church and State should not even enter this picture) now the Pope is trying the Moral Superiority of the Catholic Faith pissing off every other religion, what is next the Moral Superiority of the white race versus every other color or ethnicity to justify our way of life.
Get the message that every Country does what it can with the tolerance of his own people and if they don’t like it, they, themselves will have to fight to change it, it is not your mandate to decide for them (None of all the Sovran Nations are asking You or need your input).
So while you folks ponder how to make the rest of the world to look like the perfect picture You have in your mind of the World, most of these reprehensible people has to still survive until the next day, while most of you is cheering Italian Politicians going on a diet to prove their point (He needed a diet regardless of anything).
My point is just stop acting like the moral authority for the world just because You can, not because You have too, nobody is asking You folks anything especially from Your so called Politically Correct Way of Life Society.
Some of you appear to me as the typical bigot walking on Nike’s, listening to Ipods, wearing Benetton, chatting on a Blackberry and having a Prada’s bag while most of these Nations are still ruled by Military, Tyrants, Rulers etc.
You should tell Countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia, USA, Russia, China, India etc to stop killing people found guilty by their National Courts System.
Well wisher is one thing although foolishness is lake the Tangent, undefined.
Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | January 4, 2007 03:47 PM


Hallo.I employ a muslin(australian lovely lady converted to muslin because she married one),I asked how they feel about Saddam dead,they feel the day is was execute is a holy day,and if somebody died that day he goes straight to paradise,and according to her this is happening to Saddam,and they are not happy about,dam if you dam if you don't,no a win situation,in the end Saddam is having the last laugh!

Posted by: E.kul.nura | January 3, 2007 11:17 PM


Lorenzo, thank God I'm not alone! There are moments when I think this planet is nothing but a mental asylum. We Christians are very comfortable killing in wars and otherwise in spite of the sixth commandment that absolutely forbids to kill under any circumstances. Can you picture Christ hanging Saddam? Good grief what a bunch of hypocrites we are!!!!

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | January 3, 2007 08:19 PM


Giacomo,

You described how reality goes and I agree with you, but this does't mean that killing is right.
In USA, it is easier to execute people rather than stop selling weapons to children.
It's the perverted logic of killing that has to be condemned. This is why we cannot export democracy by killing or by waging war but only by spreading ideas of peace and compassion. This is not "buonismo" but the only solution.

It will take an eternity but let's get started

Posted by: lorenzo Federico | January 3, 2007 06:59 PM


Prince: in this case I agree with you, the best of the best doesn't exist, it's only the one we like in the moment we choose....

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | January 3, 2007 05:10 PM


Giacomo:

In my travelling around the world I've been to countries like this and I can tell you that I agree with you because their reality is what fits them and is not comparable to ours for a lot of different little parameters.

By the way: thank you for the "tune up". I can now read you without Alka Seltzer:))

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | January 3, 2007 03:21 PM


Hello everyone, and I admire the good intentions, although I have remind you that like our beloved President George.W democracy is not exportable at the tune of 3000 dead soldiers and almost 400 Billions. The same can be sat for Civility, Evolution, Compassion, Morality etc. this are not goods or services any Country can export at will. These are processes Country have to go through and evolved into, than and only than once the see the light at the end of a long tunnel, they will be receptive for all of those good intentions.
This has been established over and over again throughout the Globe, although now the best and brightest Italian Political minds are trying it again (Like in 92, 96 and now, Italy is in the Security Council though).
Facts 192 Nations in the UN body, 85 are for the Moratorium, 107 against or undecided,
Your guess is as good as mine.
Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | January 3, 2007 02:45 PM


Hello everyone, and I see that the discussion continue to rage on in spite of the fact that any Country has his own laws, rules and regulation.
I don’t claim to be an expert or a legislator, although I simply acknowledge that a Country has whatever Laws deems appropriate and democratically voted by their legislators.
The say goes “When in Rome do as the Romans do!” although some of you would like in the name of civility to abolish the death penalty in every Country on the Globe.
Now folks although admirable you are talking about overwriting 105 Countries’ laws and their reality (You are talking about ignore their life reality, and based on your reality and perceptions to justify civility!).
Your reality may be a good job, a nice house, kids going to good schools, two cars a dog and a cat, Christmas and summer vacation etc.
This is your reality, not theirs but regardless of anything, you feel empowered by your Evolution, Civilization, Morality and perception of right and wrong to abolish each and every country Death Penalty Law. I may add good luck!
I am really sorry I can’t even conceive such a baseless cause, even less worthwhile of support.
Mr. Rossi
As far as I know Iraq had and still has the Death Penalty, therefore Saddam was aware of this, and well aware I may had, although since he was the elected president he thought it was not applicable to him (Now I am confident you rather than listening to the message will shut down the messenger and will argue the Courts were bias, this is the circle of life!)
As for me and my children, I unequivocally tell them any time they have to make a difficult choice, “Think of the worst consequences from your actions, and if you can live with them, than do it with no second thought, but if you have a simple doubt well then restrain yourself from doing anything”.
This way I hope to raise a responsible person that will be cognizant of each and every action he/she will take, rather than like nowadays happen ever more often “The devil made me do it” and so the individual is relieved from any responsibility.
Miss. Filinesi
I may have missed the little girl you mentioned, although reality still remains that your perception of reality I am sure is not the reality of the Countries you would like to over-rule with your Civility. And for the fact that I seam authoritarian, I assure you I love to listen to good arguments and good reasoning, but when I am presented with arguments like Civility, Sensitivity, Compassion, and Morality etc. they all are what I called vaporware, all things that come handy when you live in an evolved and democratic country with all your right and privileges assured to you and for you, and established after wars and revolutions.
As for my stile of writing with no spaces within sentences I apologize although when I start typing words fly out of my mind onto the keyboard and I let the word processor do the rest. I will try to improve on it OK!.
Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | January 3, 2007 02:24 PM


Paola:
There is no best italian wine, there is only the one we like in the moment we choose...

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | January 3, 2007 02:02 PM


The Sheriff of the World along with his Posse has lynched the bad boy Saddam. What a shame!

Posted by: Ramesh Bista | January 3, 2007 11:17 AM


So the good wine is on!!!

Since we are civilized....the only question that still stands is:
Which is the best Italian wine??
But who really cares since

"Ogni vin fà alegria se'l se beve in conpagnia."

:o)))


Posted by: paola filinesi | January 3, 2007 01:58 AM


I just went to www.gugolare.com. In the search bar I typed "saddam" and, guess what?

All roads lead to Italy! Try it yourself!

Posted by: Eres Unica | January 3, 2007 01:30 AM


Paola: some people here confuse justice with power.
Saddam has been liquidated because it was convenient for the people in power to do so. This idea that justice has been served is laughable considering the circumstances. Killing through the death penalty only proves the lack of civility of the society that accepts it.

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | January 2, 2007 11:10 PM


Paola:
I always put everything in discussion because the world and the human mind are always on the move.

Also, because you are from Veneto and I am of Istrian heritage, we could even discuss that in front of a bottle of good wine.

About Giacomo Chiametti I have to tell you that to read what he writes is always a sacrifice because he doesn't put any space in what he writes.
As much as I dread to read him I always manage to get at the end of the task because I'm always interested in his point of view.

(Giacomo, maybe a new year resolution...)

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | January 2, 2007 11:02 PM


Enrico,
Are you talking about Politics my friend or about Moral Perpetratos???
Because if you are they are not the only ones to be put down on a list...:o))

Posted by: paola filinesi | January 2, 2007 10:53 PM


Prince,
Let's compromise...
I do agree that "..it's the crooked courts that misuse it"...!!!

Would you reconcider about the death penalty,at least until we get better courts...:o)

Posted by: paola filinesi | January 2, 2007 10:46 PM


Mr. Chiametti I must say that some times you sound very authoritarian.

" Laws come with the deterrent of a Penalty with the certainty of implementation to assure that no-one and I repeat No-One is above the law"

Maybe you have heard some time ago about a black girl that had a baby outside marriage and according to the laws of her country she was senteced to death by stone throughing because of it.
I think the girl was saved due to internatinal appeal but would you have carried out the sentence since it was the law of her country???

I never said that Saddam or any other for that matter should get away unpunished. I said that death penalty should not be imposed by other humans.
Killing the man responsible for the Milan accident would bring back the 102 passengers or would it prevent future similar mistakes???

Posted by: paola filinesi | January 2, 2007 10:41 PM


Saddam's hanging if you wish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5nKmP5wY-8


He was treated poorly in the last seconds of his life.


Posted by: Capt. Mort | January 2, 2007 09:42 PM


Hi everyone.

This is not a matter of what is right or what is not. This is not buonismo or hypocrisy.....This is a matter of conscience.

If I try to immagine myself cutting off a man's head I am also sure that I can't do it and I will never accept that "civil" institutions of whatever country do this on behalf of me.

Tyrants and killers will always exist because violence is a natural status of the human beeing.
It is up to us to break this perverse instinct and rediscover compassion and sensitivity by fighting injustice with non violent means.
I say that a society that believe in execution and violence can only create other violence and killing would become cheaper.

Violence call for violence.

Posted by: lorenzo Federico | January 2, 2007 09:09 PM


Raf:
I always sleep good at night.
I even wake up the dead with my snoring ;)))

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | January 2, 2007 07:54 PM


Prince: I wouldn't push the button, or the trap door, and I fell good so.
Everybody must be answerable for the own conscience. My conscience says to me to be against death penalty. I sleep good at night. If you could sleep good at night after pushing the botton is your matter of conscience.
:-)

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | January 2, 2007 07:28 PM


Raf:
Why don't you tell that to murderers and torturers?
It's like not putting the locks to your door because you trust the good faith of people.
Regarding the button (or the trap door) for sure I would push it for an asshole like that because I would always be better than him.
I think criminals don't have rights like common people because their status implies that, therefore, if they break the law they should get punished and not get out of jail like a Previti.
Giacomo Chiametti brings the reality check for everybody: what he wrote is a fact and not some emotional rant.
When faced with problems, what count for a right assessment are just facts and evidence.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | January 2, 2007 07:15 PM


Giacomo: "as far as I know Iraq has the death penalty, so far so good it’s within their jurisdictional power to have executed him".
Iraq's law was dictated by its present occupier: the U.S.A. Saddam was convicted not by the international Court of Justice in The Hague, but by a kangaroo Court whose first judge resigned and what followed was nothing but a mockery of justice. Why was Saddam convicted only for the killing of some Shiite Iraqis in which the U.S.A. had no involvement? Because the real trial concerning the one million plus Iranians slaughtered by Iraq in the Iraq/Iran war would have included the U.S.A. and this could not be mentioned. The final mockery was that Saddam was rushed to the gallows by the U.S. army in a military plane just before the swearing in of a new Congress controlled by the Democrats.

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | January 2, 2007 07:05 PM


Prince, you know that I don't agree with you.
NOBODY can decide about dead or life, because everyone of us, courts too, are HUMAN.
Every member of a court can make a mistake, because he is human, like me and you.
The question is: if you agree with death penalty, are you ready to do it personally? Would you be ready to push the button?

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | January 2, 2007 07:04 PM


Hello everyone and I would stay away from the argument of abolishing any Laws in any Country. Every Country has his own laws legislated by their voted political representatives, although if we talking about Country where the democracy is not established well then all the bets are off. If you want democracy over there you or your kids should go over there and spread democracy with guns, or with peaceful missions through the UN maybe. Would you like that? Please go ahead suit yourself and than come back in this blog and tell me about it. Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | January 2, 2007 06:56 PM


Hello everyone, and do I have to re-iterate that Laws come with the deterrent of a Penalty with the certainty of implementation to assure that no-one and I repeat No-One is above the law. I could care less if Italy has or has not the Death Penalty, Iraq has it and therefore after having been found guilty of the charges it was proper and swiftly carried out. Laws are legislated for a purpose if the purpose is not served what is the reason for the penalty any penalty? Next time someone in Milan Airport doesn’t turn the Radar on (Even worst doesn’t installs it) and causes 110 people to dye in a preventable accident and gets 4 years in jail (Probably he got pardoned, so now he can go back at working for the Milan Airport) Italians would feel really bad for the relatives of the dead but would feel even worst for the man responsible for this oops, hanging for him would be considered too harsh of a punishment. The rule of Law, is and rightfully so, break the rule get the punishment even worst if aware of the consequences (Although Saddam thought he was immune from prosecution, things Italian take for granted). Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | January 2, 2007 06:46 PM


Hello everyone, and just a reminder Miss. Filinesi I am Italian since I was born there, although I have to admit I have no consideration what’s so ever for the sorry state of mind of Italians about Saddam’s execution. Especially in view of the fact that the Law are made out by arguments and since not even the shred of one argument has been presented in this blog to justify other course of action about this matter. If I remind you of somebody well that may be true and the reason maybe because in the real world the reality check has already being established while for Italy is still pending before Italian Courts (Probably will be prescribed for lack of Jail Space!). Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | January 2, 2007 06:27 PM


Paola:
On the death penalty I don't agree with you.
I don't even think of it as a revenge.
In case of Saddam, I think that if the court would've sentenced him to life, one day his gang would have taken innocent people as hostages to get the government to free him and then kill those people one by one until the purpose would be served.
To hang him was the right thing to do.
Death Penalty is not the problem, it's the crooked courts that misuse it.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | January 2, 2007 06:23 PM


I agree with Paola.
I'm against death penalty and that means always and in any case. It's not "buonismo" but only having very clear ideas about this theme.

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | January 2, 2007 06:11 PM


Prince,
My argument is not Saddam's death but the death penalty.

To me hanging him was not punishing him...

Maybe what I say is more cruel but I do believe that whoever makes people suffer should suffer the same or even worst...Dying is a salvation and they do not deserve that.

Posted by: paola filinesi | January 2, 2007 05:55 PM


Law is blind neither black nor white as it was correctly said.
I am not qualified nor have adequate knowledge to argue on that.
The question is that taking the life of any human being is a horrendous act and should not be done.

Means do not justify the act!!!

The Death Penalty should not have existed in the first place...
Fortunately nations have gradually recognized the uselessness of this act and are gradually abolishing it.

I have no feelings for tyrans, dictators, molestors, and any kind of abusers. I believe if laws could be implemented that would make whom ever was found guilty, suffer for the rest of his/her life, would be a more severe punishment than giving them the joy of ending quickly their miserable life.

The Death Penalty should not be confused with other Laws and it was a great thing that is was abolished in Italy in 1947!!!

More information could be found below, if anybody cares to read them:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777460.html

QUOTE

The Death Penalty Worldwide
According to Amnesty International, during 2005 at least 2,148 people were executed in 22 countries,
94% in China, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and the United States alone.
More than 5,186 people were sentenced to death in 53 countries. More than 20,000 prisoners are on death row across the world.
UNQUOTE

ps. Giacomo Chiametti,Why so much rage against Italians??

"Is this the Moral Superiority and Civilization You sorry people are talking about? "

Do you really remind me of someone or am I mistaken??? :o)

Posted by: paola filinesi | January 2, 2007 05:48 PM


Giacomo Chiametti stole part of my words (power went down in my office for 1 hour).
Personally I would not have open the trap door on Saddam.
It's not a matter of revenge or retribution.
The laws in Iraq are different from other countries and perhaps, in this matter are better than the Italian ones, where whoever blows up squares and trains is either not prosecuted or slated for freedom with a slap on the wrist.
Saddam is now dead. Period.
I would like to know why such discussions are still open and issues like innocent people dying in Darfur, China and other places that unfortunatly are so numerous and I don't remember, are faced with less intensity.
Why the bulk of people that dies every day is neglected in favor of the fate of a guy that first is already dead and second, was a scumbag.
If it were for your "Buonismo", even Adolf Hitler probably would have been pardoned.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | January 2, 2007 05:43 PM


Hello everyone, I am sorry a little remarks to my prior comment I meant “Deterrent” my automatic dictionary is not very swift and prompt. In addition I am literally sick and tired of Italian Moral Superiority (Morally always first) although when it comes to reality lady justice as a matter of fact is blind for a reason. In Italy the indulto just happen approx. 24000 convicted offenders receive pardon for their crimes literally because there was no more jail space (Is this morally correct?) at least 50% of Italian Politics has in one form or another a Criminal Record although pending judicial prosecution (Will never happen and everyone knows it) and even in cases the guilty verdict is sentenced, the laws are not implemented. Is this the Moral Superiority and Civilization You sorry people are talking about? Please tell me about it, Italian soldiers went to Iraq soothe Agusta Company (Finmeccanica) could get a 6 billion dollar contract from the DoD of the US. Please spear me this Moral Superiority, the world is going by a different beat, in the meantime 500 Nigerians were burned alive stealing Eni gasoline, our government is concerned for 3 Eni Employs kidnapped in Nigeria. They thought Nigeria was a Country giving their oil away to whomever wanted it, and their fat paychecks was because there is a requirement to buy so much insecticide at the nearest drug store. Please wake up and smell the roses. The only Morality Italian have is to just do what they do best, stay put in Italy and safe from any prosecution. Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | January 2, 2007 05:06 PM


Hello everyone, I really enjoy this subject about Saddam execution, and while a lot of people raises the question of Civilization, Evolution, Sensitivity and Compassion with which I believe anyone could an will sympathize with the main issue still remains “What do anyone should do with Dictators?” (Dictator is a mild and general description obviously!). Every Country has his laws voted and accepted by the citizens and as far as I know Iraq has the death penalty, so far so good it’s within their jurisdictional power to have executed him. As for the rest of the world now raising the moral question of is it right or wrong to execute him, seams to me a little naïve and to be honest rather typical of the Italian Approximation factor. By definition The Law is either black or white, if there is a law to ignore it is wrong. Would someone please explain to me where do you draw the line between Right or Wrong, how can the Laws of any Land be a determent for anyone if they are not implemented to full extents of the law. Italy is the perfect example of complete disregards of any Laws, that is exactly why here there is No Certainty of Penalty when anyone breaks the law, there is no respect for the laws, look around you people from the little thief to the big white collar crime, to child molesters, to mother that kill their own children (They can claim insanity and so we justified it, so sorry!). Reality is that in China an horrendous number of innocent little people gets executed on a daily basis without even a trial, although I read no discussion or complains about China or India (Girls gets killed just for their gender in India) or Africa for that matter. Italian soldiers were killed over there together with an immense number of other people and more to come although we sit calmly at our computers and we really feel sorry for Saddam after all we are civilized and compassionate so we should not accept reality as our way of life. After having sat all of the above, Russian journalist gets killed as a routine, OJ Simpson walks away free, Mr. Sofri is rehabilitated and pardoned, in Holland you get killed for speaking about Muslims, in Sweden a Politicians was assassinated, a Jeweler blown away in Italy etc. Folks we live in a cruel world and if some form of civilized living has to exist, the Penalties have to be certain and swift. I am positive a whole lot of other so called rulers would deserve this penalty although that would hinder a lot of international relationships, Italy’s included. My take on this subject is He did the thing he was charged with and therefore he got was he deserved no questions about it, especially complains from Italians where the rule of law is completely disregarded and is up to personal or financial interpretation. In Italy the Penalties of the Law is a foreign concept to grasp and until it will be applied sorry Mr. Pannella can starve himself (He actually needs a diet and a big one at best) in the meantime at the UN Italy will ask for Moratorium on Executions, good luck China, India and the rest of the World is on another page. Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | January 2, 2007 03:48 PM


Giovanni: "An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind" - gandhi

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | January 2, 2007 03:02 PM


The families of the victims beg to differ.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | January 2, 2007 02:36 PM


I can't understand the instinct of revenge. If we had to take revenge over all injustice in the world, America should be utterly destroyed, since it's the nation that likes to dictate rules over the whole world...
Well, populism works...

Posted by: Emmanuele Massimi | January 2, 2007 02:27 PM


The guy deserved it. Period.
On one side I don't agree but on the other one I think it was the right thing to do because if that scumbag would be still alive he would've escaped somehow or, worse, be pardoned.
Then, a lot of people would be pissed off.
Of course, the Italian government was against the capital punishment because they are fresh from the "Indulto".
And maybe they will free some more ex-Red Brigade terrorists.
This is like pissing on the memory of the innocent people that were killed by few criminals that deserved to end like Saddam.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | January 2, 2007 01:57 PM


I m glad we share the same idea. Hope things will get better in the future. Let's do our own part of the job! Ciao

Posted by: lorenzo Federico | January 2, 2007 07:57 AM


Federico I totally agree with you,I probably not express myself clearly,ciao

Posted by: E.kul.nura | January 2, 2007 07:41 AM


Hi guys,
Paola is right. Governors turn into tyrants regardless their parties or ideologies.
A good politician is first of all a good man with compassionate soul that truly care about people.

Martin Luther King, JF Kennedy, Rabin, Gandhi.......they all got killed. They were trying to make our world a better place.

Posted by: lorenzo Federico | January 2, 2007 07:31 AM


Invasion of Iraq, authorized torture, concentration camps, foreign rendition and now this abhorrent execution. The West has lost its moral compass and soul. What a way to start the new year with pictures from the middle ages broadcast by every medium in the world. Shame!

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | January 2, 2007 01:44 AM


Saddam was hanged because it served a purpose,
Castro is dying a natural death and Augusto Pinochet was not even trialed before dying because they serve a purpose....

Moral Perpetrators have neither left nor right.
They only have interests....

Posted by: paola filinesi | January 2, 2007 01:27 AM


Eva,
The world can be a much better place. Sensitivity and compassion is the key... the only solution we have.

Posted by: lorenzo Federico | January 2, 2007 12:57 AM


Federico,I haven't see the video,and I do not wish to see it,you have put into words for me how I feel about it.

Posted by: E.kul.nura | January 1, 2007 11:56 PM


Seeing the eyes of a man that is going to die is horrible....I saw Saddam just before the execution and unexpectedly I felt sad.

Saddam was a monster but killing is always wrong and make us monsters as well.
The civil society should teach tyrants to be humble and people to refuse any violence.
I was horrified when president Bush said that Saddam execution was a action of justice. That's simply wrong, that's not civilization.

I hope to live one day in a world with more love and compassion.

Posted by: lorenzo Federico | January 1, 2007 11:30 PM


Saddam is dead. That is simply good. Although it does not make me particularly happy to see him hanging from a rope, it does serve him well!

It's too bad some are escaping the same fate. Castro in Cuba is dying a natural death... although he has killed thousands as well, not counting the dozens of thousands who have perished in the Florida Straits trying to escape his brutal dictatorship...

It's not oil.... In this case it is the hypocrisy of the world left that has looked the other way and, at the same time, called him "President" even though his name has never been in a ballot for the Cuban people to cast a vote. The same left that forgives him for his brutal hand and boots... and flocks to Havana to party with him.

Too bad the rope is not long enough... Saddam should have shared it!

Posted by: Eres Unica | January 1, 2007 09:51 PM


Now let's see how many of us will comment on this subject with data and numbers....!!!

Saddam was a dictator and a very good at that....he stole and killed and served his purpose as best as he could.
He got hanged because even in jail he posed a theat and had to be eliminated for good, until someone more qualified is presented......

Were there any Moral Perpetrators???

Or is it because this subject has no financial "extensions" to the Italian economy (which of course it has) it's not worth discussing??

Posted by: paola filinesi | January 1, 2007 08:52 PM


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