A bridge costing 3,880,000,000 Euro to save 20 minutes

bridge_messina.jpg

The contract for 3,880,000,000 Euro for the Messina Bridge has been awarded to the company Impregilo just a few days after the criticism regarding the majority law on the part of Montezemolo and his lunch date with our employee Casini. Is it an extraordinary mechanism of cause and effect?

Attacking the Messina Bridge is like attacking the Red Cross. This is plain even to an idiot who is completely useless, even though he is useful to the interests of someone.

After the ad hoc laws, we now have the ad hoc construction work.

The bridge is of no use to the Italians, including those from Reggio and from Messina, divided by nature for a million years.  To go from Salerno to Reggio Calabria, it takes 48 hours. Then the bridge will allow you to save 20 minutes to get to Sicily.

The country has other priorities that are real. Motorways and railways are in an abysmal state.

The 3,880,000,000 Euro are ours. Why should we spend them for a useless construction? Our employees, incapable of managing our public debt, before spending the money for the bridge should explain how we will get a return on the money, and explain the utility, the environmental impact and the do-ability.

A 3,000 metre bridge with an aerodynamic profile, has never been constructed up to now.
There’s no guarantee that it will stand up, especially if you consider that it’s in a zone of major seismic activity (remember the Messina earthquake?) and with incredibly strong currents.

On this point refer to the interview with the Professor of architectural construction, Massimo Majowiecki. Some of his conclusions are given here.

“The Delegations of Superintendence of ANAS {Roads}, of FF.SS {railways} and the Ministry of Public

Works, in July 1995 conclude: “ that the Progetto di Massima Definitivo {the final project plan} presented in December 1992, even given the undoubted value of the information supplied, it is not yet possible to indicate which project is definitely the one to be developed into a construction project, to be translated into the building of a bridge and a global passage across.”
In present conditions, the technical uncertainties stil remain….”

But the bridge will create jobs and contracts and will get the approval of the Confindustria {employers’ organisation} and of the Unions. Perhaps it would be better to get them to dig holes and fill them in again. It’s a useless activity, but at least it wouldn’t cause harm.

Posted by Beppe Grillo at 07:53 PM in | Comments (17)
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But the point is that there are more urgent matters to deal with: the country is falling to pieces!
Can anybody honestly say that this bloody bridge is a priority?
Wake up people! Time to leave planet zorc!
R xxx

Posted by: Rosie Trenta | October 17, 2005 08:13 PM


> 48 Hour is a joke obiouvsly, Beppe is not a
> politician but a comedian but his words want to
> shake our mind.

What use is a "joke" for, in this context? Then let me say that even 20 minutes to go from Calabria to Sicily, via ferry, are a joke. It's almost never 20 minutes, and it may happen that with the time needed to wait for the ferry to arrive and depart, plus the various strikes, plus the delays the weather conditions may impose, the time needed to go from one side to the other of the strait may increase up to 2 or 3 hours.

And no, that's not a joke.

Moreover, I see no mention in the blog's entry that the brige's costs will NOT be entirely covered by the state, but the majority of them will be covered by private investors, who will keep control of the bridge for some 20 years.

I see also no mention of the fact that the Salerno-Reggio Calabria route is actually in a state where improvements are made to it, where in many parts the lanes have been increased to 3 and this process isn't going to stop next year, but will continue until the end (hopefully if nothing bad happens in the meantime) and in PARALLEL with the construction of the bridge, so that, by the time the bridge is done, the highway will be able to sustain the load.

Beppe also forgets that the highway isn't the only way to get to Sicily, there are also trains which lead there, and at this point in time Messina's strait is the real bottleneck for a trip by train, as it takes a lot of time to bring the train onto the ferry and then take it out from there at the other side of the strait.

> The number is only needed to get hour thinking
> so please don't stop yourself on this number.

When someone wants to make a point, it better be a REAL point. Saying "it takes 48 hours to go from Salerno to Reggio Calabria" while at the same time saying "it only takes 20 minutes to go from one side of the strait to the other" isn't joking, it's just lying, on all fronts, and giving a distorted picture of the situation.

For as much as I admire Beppe, he should learn to not confuse the job of the comician with the job of the politician: certain things need to be taken seriously, and I mean it.

> Try to understand what a grat mistake we are
> doing and we will pay in the next years also in
> case the project will be trashed by next
> politician.

To be honest, since Beppe polluted his blog's entry with nonsensical statements and deprivated it of very important facts, I must admit that it's not at all that clear, from what Beppe wrote, why it would be such a great mistake.

Beppe only seems to imply that the bridge's only reason to exist is to launder Mafia's and Berlusconi's money, forgetting the possible benefits such a move could have. I mean, why do speculation only on the negative front, let's do it also on the positive one, shall we?

Imagine what IF both the highway and the bridge get completed in time, what IF also the railroad gets improved so that highspeed trains don't stop a Naples, but arrive up to Messina, it would make life so MUCH easier for a lot of people, it would increase the flux of tourists from and to Sicily, it would create jobs, and so on.

Yes, it's risky, yes, Mafia, 'ndrangheta and camorra will surely want a slice of the cake each, but that's life, that's what we have to deal with on a daily basis anyway.

So, Beppe, if you want to REALLY convince us the bridge is a "bad thing", you need to do better. For instance, do counterargument my points, please.

The only REAL problem I can see, is the fact that the brige will cross a geological fault, which is known to have caused and cause still today earthquakes of great magnitudo. Also, if I'm not mistaken, Sicily and Calabria keep setting each other away by 2cm per year, so I'm left puzzled at how are they going to deal with this issue.

Posted by: Fabioo Alemagna | October 17, 2005 08:02 AM


> 48 Hour is a joke obiouvsly, Beppe is not a
> politician but a comedian but his words want to
> shake our mind.

What use is a "joke" for, in this context? Then let me say that even 20 minutes to go from Calabria to Sicily, via ferry, are a joke. It's almost never 20 minutes, and it may happen that with the time needed to wait for the ferry to arrive and depart, plus the various strikes, plus the delays the weather conditions may impose, the time needed to go from one side to the other of the strait may increase up to 2 or 3 hours.

And no, that's not a joke.

Moreover, I see no mention in the blog's entry that the brige's costs will NOT be entirely covered by the state, but the majority of them will be covered by private investors, who will keep control of the bridge for some 20 years.

I see also no mention of the fact that the Salerno-Reggio Calabria route is actually in a state where improvements are made to it, where in many parts the lanes have been increased to 3 and this process isn't going to stop next year, but will continue until the end (hopefully if nothing bad happens in the meantime) and in PARALLEL with the construction of the bridge, so that, by the time the bridge is done, the highway will be able to sustain the load.

Beppe also forgets that the highway isn't the only way to get to Sicily, there are also trains which lead there, and at this point in time Messina's strait is the real bottleneck for a trip by train, as it takes a lot of time to bring the train onto the ferry and then take it out from there at the other side of the strait.

> The number is only needed to get hour thinking
> so please don't stop yourself on this number.

When someone wants to make a point, it better be a REAL point. Saying "it takes 48 hours to go from Salerno to Reggio Calabria" while at the same time saying "it only takes 20 minutes to go from one side of the strait to the other" isn't joking, it's just lying, on all fronts, and giving a distorted picture of the situation.

For as much as I admire Beppe, he should learn to not confuse the job of the comician with the job of the politician: certain things need to be taken seriously, and I mean it.

> Try to understand what a grat mistake we are
> doing and we will pay in the next years also in
> case the project will be trashed by next
> politician.

To be honest, since Beppe polluted his blog's entry with nonsensical statements and deprivated it of very important facts, I must admit that it's not at all that clear, from what Beppe wrote, why it would be such a great mistake.

Beppe only seems to imply that the bridge's only reason to exist is to launder Mafia's and Berlusconi's money, forgetting the possible benefits such a move could have. I mean, why do speculation only on the negative front, let's do it also on the positive one, shall we?

Imagine what IF both the highway and the bridge get completed in time, what IF also the railroad gets improved so that highspeed trains don't stop a Naples, but arrive up to Messina, it would make life so MUCH easier for a lot of people, it would increase the flux of tourists from and to Sicily, it would create jobs, and so on.

Yes, it's risky, yes, Mafia, 'ndrangheta and camorra will surely want a slice of the cake each, but that's life, that's what we have to deal with on a daily basis anyway.

So, Beppe, if you want to REALLY convince us the bridge is a "bad thing", you need to do better. For instance, do counterargument my points, please.

The only REAL problem I can see, is the fact that the brige will cross a geological fault, which is known to have caused and cause still today earthquakes of great magnitudo. Also, if I'm not mistaken, Sicily and Calabria keep setting each other away by 2cm per year, so I'm left puzzled at how are they going to deal with this issue.

Posted by: Fabio Alemagna | October 17, 2005 08:02 AM


> 48 Hour is a joke obiouvsly, Beppe is not a
> politician but a comedian but his words want to
> shake our mind.

What use is a "joke" for, in this context? Then let me say that even 20 minutes to go from Calabria to Sicily, via ferry, are a joke. It's almost never 20 minutes, and it may happen that with the time needed to wait for the ferry to arrive and depart, plus the various strikes, plus the delays the weather conditions may impose, the time needed to go from one side to the other of the strait may increase up to 2 or 3 hours.

And no, that's not a joke.

Moreover, I see no mention in the blog's entry that the brige's costs will NOT be entirely covered by the state, but the majority of them will be covered by private investors, who will keep control of the bridge for some 20 years.

I see also no mention of the fact that the Salerno-Reggio Calabria route is actually in a state where improvements are made to it, where in many parts the lanes have been increased to 3 and this process isn't going to stop next year, but will continue until the end (hopefully if nothing bad happens in the meantime) and in PARALLEL with the construction of the bridge, so that, by the time the bridge is done, the highway will be able to sustain the load.

Beppe also forgets that the highway isn't the only way to get to Sicily, there are also trains which lead there, and at this point in time Messina's strait is the real bottleneck for a trip by train, as it takes a lot of time to bring the train onto the ferry and then take it out from there at the other side of the strait.

> The number is only needed to get hour thinking
> so please don't stop yourself on this number.

When someone wants to make a point, it better be a REAL point. Saying "it takes 48 hours to go from Salerno to Reggio Calabria" while at the same time saying "it only takes 20 minutes to go from one side of the strait to the other" isn't joking, it's just lying, on all fronts, and giving a distorted picture of the situation.

For as much as I admire Beppe, he should learn to not confuse the job of the comician with the job of the politician: certain things need to be taken seriously, and I mean it.

> Try to understand what a grat mistake we are
> doing and we will pay in the next years also in
> case the project will be trashed by next
> politician.

To be honest, since Beppe polluted his blog's entry with nonsensical statements and deprivated it of very important facts, I must admit that it's not at all that clear, from what Beppe wrote, why it would be such a great mistake.

Beppe only seems to imply that the bridge's only reason to exist is to launder Mafia's and Berlusconi's money, forgetting the possible benefits such a move could have. I mean, why do speculation only on the negative front, let's do it also on the positive one, shall we?

Imagine what IF both the highway and the bridge get completed in time, what IF also the railroad gets improved so that highspeed trains don't stop a Naples, but arrive up to Messina, it would make life so MUCH easier for a lot of people, it would increase the flux of tourists from and to Sicily, it would create jobs, and so on.

Yes, it's risky, yes, Mafia, 'ndrangheta and camorra will surely want a slice of the cake each, but that's life, that's what we have to deal with on a daily basis anyway.

So, Beppe, if you want to REALLY convince us the bridge is a "bad thing", you need to do better. For instance, do counterargument my points, please.

The only REAL problem I can see, is the fact that the brige will cross a geological fault, which is known to have caused and cause still today earthquakes of great magnitudo. Also, if I'm not mistaken, Sicily and Calabria keep setting each other away by 2cm per year, so I'm left puzzled at how are they going to deal with this issue.

Posted by: Fabio Alemagna | October 17, 2005 08:01 AM


Here we go again! Another project which is a waste of money, constituting yet another example of the pointless propaganda this government has been given us.
Please, stop this nonsense! Send home this bunch of morons, lead by this ugly, disgusting, pitiful excuse for a man, called Silvio Berlusconi. One of nature's biggest (and most costly) mistakes: sadly!!!
Rosie xxx

Posted by: Rosie Trenta | October 16, 2005 06:22 PM


well, 48 hours is an optimistic guess

someone never got out from the salerno reggio calabria

because of car accidents (an extermination in sumeer) and far west raids (a young boy got killed by a bullet few years ago)

after all 48 hours is a good average between who travels safely in 5 hours and who does not

ps: who writes live in salerno

Posted by: Giuseppe De Sio | October 16, 2005 07:42 AM


48 Hour is a joke obiouvsly, Beppe is not a politician but a comedian but his words want to shake our mind. The number is only needed to get hour thinking so please don't stop yourself on this number. Try to understand what a grat mistake we are doing and we will pay in the next years also in case the project will be trashed by next politician. I think that Impregilo S.p.a. think that the second case is more probably so they will take a lot of money doing "nothing".

Thanks Berlusconi, thanks for your determination.

I hope your work time is quickly going to the end.

Posted by: mecch | October 15, 2005 03:03 PM


"48 hours to go from Salerno to Reggio Calabria" ...is a joke!

Beppe is always a comedian :-)

Posted by: Fabio Azanzi | October 15, 2005 02:43 PM


> Yes, your figure should be correct (maybe a bit
> longer). But most of the times people get stuck in
> such incredibles traffic jams that this time esily
> doubles... and sometimes reaches the 48 hours or
> even more. As during last winter.

Please, let's be honest here. You're talking with someone who's driven forth and back from Salerno to Reggio Calabria for the past 4 years, many times a year, and I can assure you that, on average, the trip doesn't last much more than 5 hours at normal velocity. Yes, you can get stuck in the traffic. Yes, it's a pity that it's just a 2 lanes highway. Yes, it's awful that at one point there's just one lane.

But 48 hours? It's just been a very unfortunate exception, but the blog's entry made it sound like it is the rule.

I guess not even Beppe is exempt from sensationalism, sometimes ;-)

Posted by: Fabio Alemagna | October 15, 2005 12:43 PM


Fabio Alamagna wrote: "48 hours to go from Salerno to Reggio Calabria? That seems a 'tad' excessive ;-) A more realistic figure is 5 hours."

Yes, your figure should be correct (maybe a bit longer). But most of the times people get stuck in such incredibles traffic jams that this time esily doubles... and sometimes reaches the 48 hours or even more. As during last winter.

Posted by: Michele PrÓ | October 15, 2005 11:36 AM


48 hours to go from Salerno to Reggio Calabria? That seems a 'tad' excessive ;-) A more realistic figure is 5 hours.

Apart from that, I totally agree on anything else.

Posted by: Fabio Alemagna | October 15, 2005 10:59 AM


Jamal wrote: "I was wondering, doesn't Italy have lots of economic problems right now, and lots of debt, and a shrinking population? If so, why spend so much money on a project like this?"

Jamal, I occasionally watch Italian TV (I live in Switzerland) and I must tell you there are quite a lot of the current government's decisions which I can barely understand. I guess the country is seriously getting out of hand.

Posted by: Fabio Guadagnuolo | October 15, 2005 10:47 AM


Yo, what's up Italy?! I'm coming at ya from America.

I was wondering, doesn't Italy have lots of economic problems right now, and lots of debt, and a shrinking population? If so, why spend so much money on a project like this?

- Jamal

Posted by: Jamal Washington | October 15, 2005 09:18 AM


Elisabeth,
thanks to participate to this Blog.
From your name I presume you are not Italian as most of the people that write here. (I'm Italian and live in London).
Waching Italy from far but crying for my family there and all my co-patriots.

As you maybe perceive, in Italy we are prisoners of medias. Nothing is said or shown if not "appropriate". And the contrary.
I would love to see more of comments from abroad, like yours. International pressures could help Italian People, slave of its - wrong - own electoral decision of 2001 and really "going down the drain".
Regarding the Chunnel (beside is losing money) it has the advantages to connect 60 Million British to 470 (+?) million continental european and it is invisible to human eye.
The bridge is a .. cannot find enough words to define it.
It's maybe result of human fooling wishes.

However, I'm pretty sure that they will still a lot of money and they will never complete it.

Hope Beppe's messages can make success abroad too.

Please spread the message about this Blog.

Thanks for your cooperation
Ciao

Posted by: Maurizio Dalondra | October 14, 2005 09:01 PM


Elizabeth Birks wrote:
>We've got a tunnel joining Britain to
>the mainland of Europe but I'm not sure
>that many people believe that is a good
>thing either.

Hi Elizabeth,
the tunnel that you're talking about was a great project, thought by "old style" longsighted men, and 'twas really made to join Europe and GB :-)

This such of faked bridge is also a way for our megalomaniac premier to be remembered by our future generations, like his predecessor Mussolin did 70 years ago with his "great works".

>where is it possible to read more about this?

:-) stay tuned here....

Greets

Posted by: Giampaolo Molinari | October 14, 2005 07:47 PM


Some links about the bridge

here they push for the bridge:
http://www.strettodimessina.it/

Italian government page:
http://www.governo.it/GovernoInforma/Dossier/ponte_stretto/

other web sites:
http://www.noponte.org/
http://www.ilpontesullostretto.it/
http://www.messinasocialforum.it/ponte.htm

Posted by: Simone Grassi | October 14, 2005 07:47 PM


It seems incredible that democracy has been reduced to money.

How can such a massive stupid crazy project be considered a good thing?

It makes me want to cry enough tears to fill the sea between Sicily and the mainland of Italy.

Was it Ulysses who had a bad time in this part of his sea journey? If it really were to go ahead, how many people would be killed in the process?

We've got a tunnel joining Britain to the mainland of Europe but I'm not sure that many people believe that is a good thing either. They built a really long bridge over the River Humber at Kingston Upon Hull in England but it's almost useless.

How many useless or dangerous bridges exist in the world? How many have been built and are now collapsed?

Where is it possible to read more about this?

Posted by: Elizabeth Birks | October 14, 2005 06:26 PM


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