The New Prohibition

no al vino.jpg

The law about drugs is spreading out and has produced the following instructive debate:

From the speech of the employee Tiziana Valpiana on 3 February 2006 in the Lower Chamber:

Someone has already asserted earlier how the provision in question has been written so badly as to risk outlawing the vine and tobacco. The reason why in previous laws the substances that are forbidden were named one by one, on the basis of a list instead of based on criteria, was to avoid the paradox that substances like alcohol made from vines or tobacco were outlawed.

In fact there is no doubt that alcohol, as is stated in the text of this law, produces effects on the central nervous system and has the capacity to determine physical or psychological dependency of the same degree and to a greater degree than other drugs, as is evident from pharmacology, form epidemiology and unfortunately from data on mortality.
As for the vine, in particular, there is no doubt that it is a plant and that wine is made from it and as everyone knows the main active ingredient of wine is alcohol, which in rare cases can cause hallucinations, but more frequently, as is written in your regulations, sensory distortions. We all know that when we drink one too many glasses we see double, we walk in a zigzag we have reflexes that are definitely slower and modified.

We cannot joke with this aspect because if some fanatic denounces wine producers it will be hard for a magistrate to find a way of not condemning the producers to at least 6 years in prison.

In this case I maintain that those who drink wine should follow the regulations that you have inserted here and declare themselves alcoholics so that instead of going to prison, they can be welcomed into one of the communities that you sustain, help and request.”

From the speech of the employee Alfredo Mantovano, representing the Government on 3 February 2006 in the Lower Chamber:

"Re-reading the regulations would make it possible to avoid saying things that are so distant from the letter of the law as those that have been presented even this morning in relation to the punishment that the new law would establish for the possession or use or distribution of alcohol. This statement, absolutely in error, appears to be based on the new article 14. In reality, this article 14 it is true at letter a) point 4 holds to be illegal every other substance – this is the literal wording  - that produces effects on the central nervous system and has the capability to determine physical or psychological dependency of the same degree and to a greater degree than those already indicated.

But these indications cannot be compared to the punishment of alcohol because they are in an article under the heading <<criteria for the formation of the tables>> and the tables are those relating to narcotic drugs and that at comma 1 begins with the following words: The inclusion of narcotic drugs or psychotropic substances in the tables mentioned in article 13 and carried out on the basis of the following criteria. Thus there it is talking about drugs and not alcohol. How is it possible to sustain anything to the contrary?"

It’s not possible to understand a thing. Perhaps Mantovano has been drinking or smoking because the law (comma 1) talks about “narcotic drugs or psychotropic substances”.

The famous Rogues Report examined the substances from the neurobiological point of view, demonstrating that the most dangerous drugs are heroin, cocaine, and alcohol. No-one can deny that alcohol is a psychotropic substance.
This law will establish the illegality of producing and consuming wine, beer and other alcoholic products.
A new prohibition.
It’s so gross that not even those who proposed it want to admit to it.
But it is true that alcohol in Italy causes 40,000 deaths each year, whereas all the other illegal drugs together cause 500, so perhaps, for once, and without wanting to, the Government is right.

Posted by Beppe Grillo at 11:20 PM in | Comments (16)
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Hey Beppe,

I read something the other day that really made a lot of sense to me: “Let us remember that virtually every addict starts out as an occasional user who has made a voluntary and controllable decision to partake of a particular substance or activity. As time passes, however, and the use of the substance or activity continues, a person makes a transaction from being a voluntary to a compulsive user.”

Not only is this a transition from “alcohol abuse” to “alcoholism,” but it also summarizes the importance of “control” in the addict. That is, the telltale sign, the pivotal issue in the life of an addict is this: when a person starts to lose control over the substance or activity, he or she becomes hooked. At this point, moreover, the addiction is no longer “hidden” or “silent” as it may have been when the person was more of an occasional abuser. Indeed, at this point, the addiction is typically an out-of-control mess that has already started to ruin people’s lives.

Posted by: Denny Soinski | December 17, 2006 06:24 AM

Who said alcohol is a food stuff??? Food provides us energy rather then alcohol which sucks.Im not saying drinking alcohol is bad but being in limit.

Posted by: lion | July 11, 2006 09:40 AM

Dear Gabriele
1) I talked about ALCOHOLIC, not SUPER-ALCOHOLIC (A. up to 15% EtOh, S-A. more than 15%). Tequila is S.-A. Less then one glass is enough to get drunken, without eating, to get drunken (in the mornign!). But I think that you (or your uncle) will dink 20 cup of coffee, if you are still live!
I repeat: the problem isn't the substance, but THE QUANTITY. In this case the quantity of alcohol (or the coffee, or sugar) . Your example is quite right, but I've kown (I didn't know before 1 month ago) that also dinking a lot of water is dangerous. I a case, a woman that dinks 5 liters of water in a little, risked is life! I assure you that it's impossible to drink more than 1 liter or PURE WATER (e.g. from ice) because you risk you life, because your euilibrium between water and salts in your body is re-arranged. So do you think that also water is poisonus?
2) This problem doesn't exist for drugs (all drugs): You have to limit water, alcohol, coffe, all you want. BUT T.H.C. in marijuana have an inner toxicity. It's NON COPMATIPLE with human body, beacuse it has a low level of ACUTE TOXICITY This depends also from person and othe r person, but the level exists. STOP. Do we have killed rats and rabbits for nothing? Do the reasearchers of EU are all stupid? If you want to believe to a "polically carrect truth", you are free to do, but real scientific data is different.
P.S. I drink 2 glasses of wine a day. I've any problem of pressure blood, ... I suffer by asma from the car traffic. But using car, in Italy, is an untouchable right. Like smoking cannabis...

Posted by: Max Brusa | February 12, 2006 11:30 AM

I've never ever heard that someone killed anyone under the effect of cannabis but I've heard heaps of times that someone started a fight under the effecto of the abuse of alcohl.The thing is that alcohol is legal,has got easy access from everybody,is socially accepted etc etc..when you go to visit someone in their houses or you meet them out no one never asks "what do you smoke?"but instead they ask "what do you drink?"with the meaning not of a glass of water instead something alcoholic.How many times do you have a couple or more of aperitives and afterwards you drive the car?are you still the same?well,I don't think so..have a couple of puffs,get relaxed and enjoy!!

Posted by: Alessandra Z | February 12, 2006 04:38 AM

OK Mr. Max let do like this.
I my uncle Tom and you see each others in the morning and start : I to smoke a joint Tom to drink a big cup of coffee and you to have a nice water-glass of Tequila. We keep going like this for a couple of hours until I think I am happy and completely stone, Tom is a little bit nervous and you my dear Tom After enter in alcoholic coma are dead.
I am not a chemical expert but I can Bet all the money you want.

Posted by: Gabriele Bartoletti | February 11, 2006 12:55 PM

Don't forget that Berlusconi (OH DID I SAY THE NAME???I apologize...)bought an horse and a half once and in the jergon it means lots of Diet Coke..ah ah ah

Posted by: Alessandra Z. | February 11, 2006 08:26 AM

Alcohol is like a drug? Are you stupid?
1) Alcohol is a FOODSTUFF. Drinking it in a large quantity is dangerous, but also drinking a large quantity of coffee is dangerous. Ethilic alcohol is tolerable of human body, THC not! In the case of ethilic alcohol, the problem is the ratio af the absorbption of the human body. This is the reason because a lot of people don't get drunken if they eat (and drink) or if they drink slowly. You can argue about the problem of Proibitionism, but before discussing about chemistry, PLEASE, YOU MUST STUDY.
P.S1. about toxicology data about THC (in cannabis) see the data from EU. THC is labeled "Xn", with LD50 (oral rat) = 1200 mg/kg. A lot of organic solvent are less dangerous for human health.
P.S2. I know your comment: I have to study english. But I'm learning it. You don't know chemistry, and you don't want to know it!

Posted by: Max Brusa | February 10, 2006 10:26 PM

Hallo to everybody I suggest to have a look at Mark Howerd DVD or book called Mr. NICE this for any members of the italia goverment too.
If you have ever smoked a joint this is a must.

Posted by: andrea mantese | February 10, 2006 01:34 PM

hemmm, Lapo's ass burns even without Coke! ;-)

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | February 10, 2006 01:03 PM

Well, Lapo would say that Coke makes your ass burn.....

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | February 10, 2006 04:01 AM

I'm against Prohibitionism because:
1# History teachs us that it doesn't work
2# I think that the only way to fight against drug addiction is to bring up people to indipendence, freedom of thought, self-determination.

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | February 9, 2006 07:42 PM

I heard several comments from some politicians
about the effects of a joint...
Everybody talked about dizziness...sore head and so on....
the first time i tried I only laughed for about 45 five minutes and after the effect was gone.
Italian politicians are only a bunch of quaquaraqua.

Posted by: Luca | February 9, 2006 06:40 PM

I cannot believe this is for real
Wine is a drug!
I do know that there have been thousands of surveys and studies about the percentage of spirits drunk by individuals take make you more or less an alcoholic subject
But what about all those speeches that said that ' a glass of red wine at each meal' helps your blood circulation? Wasn't ethanol (or something else in red wine)anti carcerogenic?
will the drinking of wine (as it is the closest think to JC's blood during communion) be banned from masses as well?
How about all the 'gods'nectar' producers?
will they end up in jail or will they be given another job?
This is so deceiving!
In the developing world they are trying to promote wine production to boost their economies (see Chile,South Africa and so on and so forth)
Is this an attempt by italian politicians not to contribute in the developing countries' process of fair trade policies?
i wonder!!!

Posted by: Maria Consuelo Spera | February 9, 2006 10:50 AM

well it hard not to be offensive
just a thought though
anything is taxed by governments, if they could they would tax air
so if they dont tax drugs its because its better like this for them afterall look at the people in parliament of which a wide majority are well known crooks to the authorities.
Yet it is more important to put in jail someone who smokes pot instead of someone who favors the mob. (we pay actual incomes to collaborators)

At least ignorant as they are (Mr. Fini in particular) this bill was introduced in such a manner to keep away even those in favor of an old concept like prohibitionism.
This goes to show what kind of sad useless people politics are made of.
We all can sit and complain, we are all good at that -
but what about not voting for these school kids that argue all day at our expense (they are truly expensive for sitting around doing nothing and passing such bright laws!!!)
Cause what they do, not only on this matter, leaves most truly speechless.

Posted by: andrea panno | February 9, 2006 10:30 AM

This makes me want to piss on the grave of Eliot Ness.
Proibitionism didn't work then and never will.
Those laws cover up the bad education that everybody received from the "civilized" nations.
Every time I go to the supermarket to buy a 6-pack of beer or a bottle of wine I have to silently stare at the clerk younger than 21 that has to call somebody over that age just to scan the bottle at the cash register.

P.S.: Give me a break!

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | February 9, 2006 12:58 AM

I love you Beppe,
but what are we gonna do???
everything seems so unreal and silly,
can't even think about such stupid questions!it's beyond any bad imagination - but it's real!!! so sick!
thank you for letting us know how deeply sick and silly this sistem is at this point - you are such an angel - a ray of light

Posted by: alessandra mosso | February 9, 2006 12:11 AM

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