Heil Spiegel!


I read Der Spiegel. A friend translated it for me. After reading it I felt like one of those dads that hit their offspring every time they make a mistake, but if someone else does it they become like an angry beast. For many reasons, we Italians are disgusting, but compared to other people, for example the Germans, at least we recognise this. We know our defects and we are certainly not proud of them. If there’s people that talk ill of themselves, it’s Italians. Self-criticism is our personal pleasure.

Der Spiegel, taking the image of our footballers and broadening the concept to all Italians, calls us forms of parasites, malignant mother lovers who take advantage of women, beach people, vainglorious, slimy, unable to live without an animal guest from which we suck as much as possible, with a primary objective in life that is continuous ostentation to seem tired, and in the case of footballers, preferring to play the ball to the ground so as to have a better chance of hitting the bones of the others.
Der Spiegel concludes by threatening the Italian footballers by declaring that if Germany meets them in the semi-finals, they, the Germans, have still got a couple of accounts open since their last Italian holiday.

Der Spiegel is one of Germany’s most widely read weeklies. I don’t know whether the opinion of their numerous readers is represented by what they have written.

It’s certain that traditional German hospitality is not like it was once upon a time if no Government source has yet taken up a position against the insults of Der Spiegel towards a guest nation.

A gesture of pride, employee Prodi! A telephone call to Chancellor Merkel to ask for action.
To the director of Der Spiegel and to the europenpusher author of the article, I can simply say that their words unjustly dishonour the German people, and not the Italians.

Posted by Beppe Grillo at 09:40 AM in | Comments (69)
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Klause Meine,vocalist and songwriter for German Heavy-Metal Band The Scorpions in one of their songs entitled New Generation states We are ,We are the new generation,we are the only ones who can make the change. Let us accept all cultures their beauty,their art history etc.. good or bad and change the way we interact with one another.One race we are the human race.Everyone wants their team to win and that is understandable but let us not lose focus on what is important and that it is only a football game...need more love in this world here is an age old stereotype about italians we are great lovers.......

Posted by: Rocco Morano | July 22, 2006 02:59 AM

Funny... Mr.Grillo is asking "A gesture of pride, employee Prodi! A telephone call to Chancellor Merkel to ask for action.".
He looks like the Kaczynski twins in Poland asking the chancellor to take action for a satirical article on the Die Tageszeitung of June the 26th.

Germany's chancellery has responded that it doesn't comment on matters of press freedom.
I love this answer.
And I'm surprised of Mr. Grillo's post. Probably he doesn't like press freedom...

Posted by: Roberto Longo | July 12, 2006 07:27 AM

You should all come and live here in nationalist Québec!! Here is simple: the "pure laine" (with their manifest "L'Appel de la race") just hate everybody! We Europeans are all on the same level. They hate us Italians (jelousy but also because we chose to speak English), French (maybe because they speak French just too well), Brits (colonialists), Americans (new colonialists) and also Germans (just racists nazis). Thay also hate Latinos, Asians and of course Blacks.

I have French friends that are sick of hearing "maudit français" everyday. When I took German language and litterature at university, everyday, our German lecturers tried to educate pple. about the negatives of clichés and stereotypes (sick of being called nazis I guess). And so on and on. At least here, in front of those nationalists (not everybody in Québec, let me make that clear), a German isn't worth more than an Italian or a French!

I've always hoped for a better Europe where different nations would grow up and grow from one another. But Der Spiegel's article was very disapponting and it bring us back ruining all the efforts some pple have put in to "make friends" btw Nations (almost). In the meanwhile, that 2-0 was our best reply to those who insults us regularly (not just Germans)!

BTW, in Canada (and America as well) no paper would ever dare to publish such a piece of thrash about a country or culture (but on the radio it's free for all though)

Humor can easily slip and hurt pple. Just ask Dieudonné (a caustic humorist from France)

A question to those who justify Der Spiegel's article: why the French or British Press (they are sometimes very critical, but they are also fair) never publish such articles about us Italians? Maybe because they have a bit more respect...

Posted by: Giovanni Facchin | July 12, 2006 04:21 AM

Wir haben aber auch lange dafür gebraucht! ;-)

Hier in diesem Telefonstreich (aus Österreich!) werden übrigens auch hochlustig einige Stereotypen ausgenutzt …

Posted by: Matthias Wagner | July 8, 2006 12:56 AM

Ja, Matthias, ich bin inszwischen müde geworden, immer dasselbe zu erzählen. Der deutsche Humor scheint doch besser als der italienischer su sein, zumindestens lockerer! ;-)

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | July 7, 2006 11:48 PM

Me and my wife (who's half-italian) laughed out loud when we read the Spiegel-satire. Yes: It's a satire! It overexaggerates, it's funny, it's mad, and it is everything a SERIOUS article is NOT allowed to be. It has to if it wants to be a satire!

So please don't discuss it in the serious way the most people here do.

If you want a satire to be politically correct you plead for abolishing satires at all.

Posted by: Matthias Wagner | July 7, 2006 09:40 PM

Dear Friends,

It seems Italy is not only geografically halfway between Denmark and Cairo. This overhyped incident reminds me of the Mohammad carricatures, because people want to misunderstand it.

This author produces plenty of satires at the border of political correctness, many of them also about Germans.

And yes, for me it was very funny to read, because it's completely over exagerated and beyond political correctness.

Basically it jokes about the cliche of this kind of cheap playboys hanging around at beaches and try to charm easy female tourists. (And we all know generations of German women enjoyd this kind of "welcome"! Well nowadays more in cheaper places like Morocco or Kuba, sorry )

I've seen plenty of this kind of humor already in England, USA and France about Germans and I was always able to laugh.

For example maybe you know Howard Stern in the US? he is by far worse!

Anyway as soon as Spiegel realised Italians start to take it serious and feel really offended they took it from the web, which is a wise reaction.

Another similiarity to caricature crisis seems to be, that you get completly wrong translations and informations in Italy.

The real scandal might be that your press is not acting with the neccessary responsibility, don't you think so?

Also the reactions I read in this forum makes me afraid about Germans going to be attacked in Italy! Maybe with potatoes? If you plan so, do me a favour .....

... please start with Benedetto Ratzinger!!! (SCNR ;)


scusi que no posso dicere le in italiano, cara amici :)

Posted by: Rolf LanX | July 6, 2006 03:51 AM

Blisco: I know Germany and Germans very well, they are not so respectful of rules and so hard-working as we think!
Or rather, there are average people and not average people. The average German is just as we imagine him. The others, the outsiders, are individual persons, everyone is different.
I'm not used to to associate with average people, it doesn't matter if they are Germans, Italians, Americans or Japanese...!

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | July 5, 2006 07:33 PM

Arbeit, only arbeit and rules to respect. Sometimes I would want to be a german too but now I start to have doubts about them.
Are they really like they were? In any case, if in Der Spiegel happens facts like this, it means that they can’t control like they are supposed to control organizing things in a newspaper and in this case they are worser than italians. So, in this case I stay like I am.
Remember the story with the captain?
It’s the same: Instead of telling that we are the best, they say that we are worsers and Grillo (Maybe he’s also a good psychologist?) repeated that to anybody and italians started to be mad. Mad. So mad that they started to think that it was a good occasion to prove that we are not so bad as that. And Italy win the match. Of course, we can say like Napoleon that we just win a battle but not the war but who cares? Now that we are happy, we are ready to loose anything. Like usually!;-)

Posted by: blisco jaio | July 5, 2006 05:41 PM

Hello everybody.
Why don't we try to write an e-mail to a Der Spiegel journalist? Just like: "Did you enjoy speaking before the match? Then you enjoyed watching your captain face after the match. Better thinking before chattin'...". The only problem is that we wrote it to journal but received for answer an auto-reply. Should find a Der Spiegel journalist email...Could you help us please?

Posted by: Gianluigi De Rosa | July 5, 2006 12:52 PM

a very impressive demonstration of good football.
despite the scandals of the Italian soccer(only because our judges work more...it is the same shit everywhere, I am sure), the Spiegel and the stupid natioalist attacks from some populist and racist nostalgic Germans (and some but little reaction of some simple minds Italians who thought, but fortunately they are wrong, that most of the Germans are like the idiot who wrote the article in the Spiegel...).
Bild and Spiegel: leave the nationalism, it is old fashion and had already caused too much pain (expetially the one made in Germany, but also the Italian and all other expressions) learn how to play football and then we will talk again...


Posted by: Paolo Antonio Lovi | July 5, 2006 12:15 PM

Having read Mr. Grillo's comments on the aformentioned Der Spiegel item, I completely agree. Having said that, I think we would be in error if we didn't recall how the Romans educated Deucthland (& Northern Europe) in mattters of art, religion, and general civility. Let's be [even] more frank: German's would still be swinging from trees had not the Romans conquered them. As an American of Italian & German ethnicity, all that matters to me is: Italia 2, Germania 0............

Posted by: Matthew Viola | July 5, 2006 12:13 PM

Meglio na pizza che du WURSTEL!!!!!!!!!
V' avemo rotto il Cxxx

Posted by: eugenio kornaropoulos | July 5, 2006 11:08 AM

I highly doubt Germans actually think this way. If they do it's their problem. It would say more about them than Italians. There's a strange shared competitive respect for both cultures. Sure, Northern Europeans tend to at times look condescendingly down at the Mediterranean but who cares? Italy competes with them artistically, industrially and especially satirically. I'd let it go. It's easier after Italy ran away with a 2-0 victory. Politically, Italy must stay in Iraq. Iraq must succeed. Puling out is a grave, short-sighted mistake. Cutting and running leaving the Iraqi's alone would not be right. People think America is dangerous. I, as a Canadian, do not believe this for one second. America would defend the West in a heartbeat. Spare the interest angle. We all have interests. Ciao

Posted by: ALEX | July 5, 2006 05:40 AM


Mannaggia abbiamo dovuto subire una dura lezione!

Posted by: Paolone | July 4, 2006 11:46 PM

Oscia, quanto gli fara' male questa!

Posted by: Mirco Magi | July 4, 2006 11:34 PM

Once all the Germans were warlike and mean,
But that couldn't happen again.
We taught them a lesson in 1918,
and they've hardly bothered us since then.

Posted by: Marco Russo | July 4, 2006 08:40 AM

Dear Mr. Magagnoli,

First point: you are right and my phrase was not complete and precise. I apology.
Second point: we have 2 different points of view.
Third: My mother taught me that the worst disdain is not to care about others words. This is why I suggested to ignore such nonsense

Posted by: Roberto Longo | July 3, 2006 05:02 PM

@Alexander Smoltczyk
I agree totally with you. I read "Der Spiegel" almost each week. It's a very serious magazine, which is giving an unprejudiced summary of the political world situation.
Spiegel readers know very well that the magazine is absolutely not racist or nationalistic, on the contrary, it's often very pungent satiric even with Germans and their bad habits.
Secondly, in this case, the satire was not directed to "Italy" or "Italian people", but only to italian men, and as italian women who was living many years in Germany, I must unfortunetly agree with it!!!!!!
Sure, the tone of the article was excessive, and a couple of words were really in bad taste, but the article was promptly deleted with a letter of apologies to Italians.
Alexander, if you go on the italian side of the blog, you will see that the title of the post is: Der Stronzen (if you live in Italy, you know very well what it means!). On the english version came "Heil Spiegel" . Probably Beppe doesn't know that the hidden meaning of the two expressions is very different, and "Heil Spiegel" is a real insult, because it's reminding to the worst crime of the umanity. It remember me somebody else, a certain Mr. B...!
All that happened only because of many translation mistake!
Das zeigt wie wichtig die Sprache sein kann!

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | July 3, 2006 10:46 AM

Dear Beppo,
as the correspondent of Der Spiegel in Rome I would like to comment on your notes. Please, do not mix the journal Der Spiegel with the completelty independent Online-edition. Please do not mix the satirical blog of one freelancer there with our seriously and – so I hope – fairly done journalistic work in the magazine. My magazine has sent explanatory letters to all journals in Italy, because we too were scandalized by the online-article. Things have been getting worse because the translation was erroneous. "Eingeölt" is definetly not "slimy", to take an example. It is just: "having put sun-cream on".
"Heil Spiegel" therefore is very bad taste. Due to the sun, I presume...
All my best

Posted by: Alexander Smoltczyk | July 3, 2006 08:33 AM

Ecco cosa scrive il giornalista premio "Pulitzer" Achim Achilles oggi su spiegel.de. Si vede proprio che gli brucia:

"Si vedrà se gli Azzurri meritano di essere in semifinale. Sono gli unici che finora non hanno dovuto disputare una sola grande partita per arrivarci. Martedi a Dortmund i "ben acconciati" avranno l' opportunità di arrivare fino ai loro limiti."

>>link: http://www.spiegel.de/sport/achilles/0,1518,424647,00.html

Mi sa che la moglie alla fine é scappata con l' amante italiano.

Saluti dalla svizzera

Posted by: Carlo Fumarola | July 2, 2006 01:06 PM

Mr. Longo,

you asked who is worse, a German journalist writing some nonsense about Italians or an Italian Prime Minister naming "Kapo'" a German member of the European Parliament?

First of all I have to make clear that I'm not a supporter of Mr. Berlusconi, but he didn't call Mr. Schulz a Capo. He told him that he would suggest him for the role of a Kapo in an Italian film.

Second: I do not see any link between the stupid remarks of the former Italian Prime Minister at the European Parliament and the infamous article appeared in Spiegel Online. The German journalist hadn't obviously the intention to use his article as an "answer" to Mr. Berlusconis remarks in Strassbourg, but to make fun of Italian men in a very rude and tasteless way with words ("parasitäre Lebensform") that reminded me of the worst times of Nazi propaganda.

Third: I disagree with your conclusion that one should ignore such nonsense. It is better to make clear that this kind of addition of sterotypes and insults is completely unacceptable. Above all it isn't a question of political correctness but a question of decency and education.

Posted by: Ralf Magagnoli | July 2, 2006 01:12 AM

Heil beppe, just for your info...i friend of mine just called me from muinch (germany!!) and he told me that there are hundreds and hundreds of germans driving around with two flaggs on their cars...an german and an ITALIAN one!!! haven't seen an italian (here in italy) doing the same thing!!! how come??? give my best regards also to your buddy calderoli. and maybe it's also time for you to get the duce of the wall too...

Posted by: Ronny Kiaulehn | July 1, 2006 03:23 PM

"Unser Kolumnist Achim Achilles hat den Auftrag, an der Grenze zur political uncorrectness zu formulieren. Das gelingt fast immer mit Witz und Charme. In diesem Fall nicht. Seine Kolumne überschritt in einigen Passagen die Grenzen des guten Geschmacks, in anderen häufte er Klischees an, die in der Summe zu Missverständnissen und Empörung geführt haben.

Dass der Text unredigiert veröffentlicht wurde, dafür bittet die Chefredaktion von SPIEGEL ONLINE um Verzeihung. Es war und ist nicht unsere Absicht, die Gefühle von Menschen zu verletzen, wie es offenkundig durch diese Kolumne geschehen ist.

Bereits gestern haben wir in einem redaktionellen Zusatz an dem geänderten Artikel auf Deutsch und Italienisch um Entschuldigung gebeten. Heute nun haben wir ihn komplett aus dem Angebot von SPIEGEL ONLINE entfernt.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Chefredaktion, SPIEGEL ONLINE

A proposito di Achilles:
Perorando la nostra causa

La satira puo essere velenosa, pungente, esagerata. Però non deve mai dare adito a fraintendimenti, così da risultare solo offensiva. Questo è accaduto con la colonna "Eingeölt und angeschmiert" ("Unti e fregati") pubblicata martedì da SPIEGEL ONLINE.

Il nostro autore Achim Achilles è incaricato di scrivere i suoi articoli al limite della political incorrectness. Gli riesce quasi sempre con spirito e charme - ma non questa volta. In alcuni passaggi il suo articolo ha superato i limiti della decenza, in altri ha messo insieme tutt'una serie di luoghi comuni, che hanno portato ad incomprensioni e proteste.

La Direzione di SPIEGEL ONLINE si scusa per aver pubblicato l'articolo in questione senza averlo precedentemente rivisto. Non avevamo e non abbiamo l'intenzione di ferire i sentimenti altrui, com'è invece successo evidentemente con quel testo.

Già ieri abbiamo aggiunto una nostra nota di scuse in italiano ed in tedesco all'articolo. Ma oggi abbiamo provveduto a toglierlo definitivamente da SPIEGEL ONLINE.

Vi saluta

La Direzione


An Apology to our Readers

Satire can be poisonous, pointed, even exaggerated. But it should never be so clumsily executed as to merely be insulting. The column, "Eingölt und angeschmiert" (Oiled up and greasy), published in German on SPIEGEL ONLINE on Tuesday, unfortunately, was one of those instances.

In his writing for SPIEGEL ONLINE, Achim Achilles was commissioned to formulate a column that explores the boundries of political correctness. In almost every instance, he has succeeded -- demonstrating wit and charm. In this instance, however, that unfortunately wasn't the case. In several passages, his column crossed the boundary between good and bad taste. In others, he amassed clichés that, in their sum, led to considerable misunderstanding and anger.

The editor in chief and executive editors of SPIEGEL ONLINE apologize for the publication of an unedited version of the column. We had no intention of hurting the feelings of others in the manner that this column has done.

On Tuesday, the column was edited and an editor's note was attached in German and Italian providing an apology for the incident. Earlier today, we removed the article in its entirety from SPIEGEL ONLINE.


The Editor in Chief and Executive Editors of SPIEGEL ONLINE"

Waiting for the apologies of Mr. Berlusconi then...

Posted by: Roberto Longo | June 30, 2006 06:54 PM

Don´t understand the big commotion. It was a great laugh. Germans woould also laugh when someone would write like this about us. I guess we do have a sense of humor.

People seem to forget that Achilles has written similar about the Brazilians and Swedes. Did the complain? No.

I guess people get upset because Spiegel published it, if Bild would have printed sonething like this, then it´s expected.

Posted by: Sabine Krueger | June 30, 2006 03:06 PM

Dear readers,

This article is no satire because of the source and content. If published in an other country, it won't have the same taste, still insulting, but less.

I was born in Germany and lived here my whole life.

The problem here is a strong and old tradition of "Italian-bashing" in Germany. In many published articles, but also in society.

Most germans love Italy, Italian food, culture, weather, country .... but a mentionable part of the germans also can't stand Italians at the same time (damn Italians probably occupied beautiful Italy).

This part of the germans can't stand the "dolce vita" and "laissez faire" of the Italians because its absolutely conflicting with their principle of trying to organize and control everything.

May it be football or life. They really do not understand why and how Italians are able to manage life at all and deep inside envy that somebody can run his world without such an effort.

Please note that i wrote "a part of the Germans", however this part has a strong voice in Germany and a lot of germans, especially men, reading this article think "Wow, this article is something that has to be said, thanks Mr. Achilles"

This is the background of such an article, and just to mention: the Signor Achilles had been several times in Italy for holiday, because his wife Mona forced him to (he wrote an article about his wish to stay in Germany for holiday, just look on "Spiegel Online").

Sorry dear Germans (saying that as a germanized Italian):

"The article shows again, that there is a lack of creativity in writing and respect against Italy in this country."

Posted by: Marco Caruso | June 30, 2006 12:47 PM

I am Italian, I live abroad. I am proud to be Itaian and not to be nationalist and I felt insulted by the article.
On the other side, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU
Yes, Americans are doing what they want and very few politicians (even on the leftside) have the courage to critisize them!
Yes, fascism/intolerance is everywhere and now even more in Southern Europe. Yes, it is true, I saw many svastics in Italy (especially in Rome) and in Spain. I don't think you can see them a lot in Germany. Fascism and racism have to be fighted everywhere and people like Calderoli, Le Pen or Hayder should not be allowed to make
public shows.

Posted by: Paolo Antonio Lovi | June 30, 2006 11:10 AM

Dear Beppe,

I was rather surprised when I read the infamous article of Achim Achilles. And I was surprised because a well known and prestigious magazine like the Spiegel has published such a low quality pamphlet which is not only insulting millions of Italians, bit also the soccer players from Ukraine. Mr. Achilles article reminds me of the Nazi magazine "Der Stürmer". But it's necessary to say that this article does not reflect the attitude of the vast majority of Germans towards Italy.

Posted by: Ralf Magagnoli | June 30, 2006 10:44 AM

Yes, yes, the bad Americans..... they did not plan the complete extermination of a population as the Nazi did (and it looks like you are saying they were not that bad...), by killing methodically (and NOT in the course of war actions) six million people (that means human beings).
Wars have always existed on this planet, unfortunately, and we are not here to count the numbers of human beings killed in conflict to establish who committed less crimes..
Nonetheless, the holocaust still stands out as the most terrifying episode in the history of man's horrors.
Messages like yours justify the need of keeping the level of alert high against some lines of thought that still find fertile ground in German sub-cultures.

All the best, and now I am going to enjoy some good beaches and the good weather we have over here.... sorry that you must come to Italy for that :P
take it easy.....

Posted by: Marco Marchi | June 30, 2006 04:28 AM

everybody always talks about the bad german's past and their neonazism. rarely somebody mentions hiroshima and nagasaki where hundreds of thousand people got killed by the u.s. in just a second and millions of people still suffer the consequences. in italian tv there is a holocaust documentation about every other week but i have never seen one about the nuclear disasters and cruel killings the americans have done. couldn't one call that a kind of propaganda too?? showing the bad germans to keep the hate alive against them to cover up what is happening in the present just outside your door??

lets keep in mind:

-for the moment there are no german guns helping the u.s.a to kill irakain civilians including innocent women and children.

-more then 10 people got killed in tripolis beause the italian tv allowed the italian minister(!!) calderoli his homemade t-shirt. insulting a whole religion and their god. calderoli had even anounced that before. and now the italians are paying tax to sponsor his reinforced bodyguard protection.

- Strange enough nobody said anything about fascism!!?? Isn't it still quite alive in italy, specialy around the veneto region and rome?? at least thats what i hear!?? i am not very informed about what's happening in other countries but the last time i saw a swastika (hackenkreuz) was a few month ago in an italian football stadium (Lazio??) because there were some black players around.

- And please let's not forget that italy, till a few month ago, had a leader that was in court 18 times, only 2 times guilty:)) (how did he do that??). owning the most part of the mass media in italy?? democracy??

All that is not 60 years ago!!!

self critisizm is a great thing but just if you try to inprove things after!

everybody should clean up in front of his own door first....

Posted by: Franco Hubert | June 30, 2006 12:40 AM

Wow, this is an extremely impressive dual-language blog!! Does Grillo really write that well in English or is there some kind of automatic translation software (if so, it is extraodinarily impressive!!).

I am an American (actually un italo-americano) living in Italy. I read the Spiegel article and agree with those who feel repulsed by this sort of **** (parassitic lifeforms, lazy, slimy, etc...give me a break!!). One must distinguish between two cases: There is good, clean, sharp, biting satire that does not descend into cheashots and crude stereotyping and racism and then there is crude stereotypic and idiotic racism which wishes to pass itself off as satire. The Speigel article clearly crossed the line into the latter category. Signor Grillo was obviously sharp enough to recognize that distinction.

Posted by: Francesco Franco | June 29, 2006 07:09 PM

By the way, if you go to see the name of the guy who did the article on Der Spiegel you will see that it's not a german name. So why to comdamn all the germans for that?

Posted by: BLISCO JAIO | June 29, 2006 06:51 PM

The reply from Der Spiegel to Lucio Truono shows that the magazine is serious and very politically correct.
Don't forget it was a private magazine not a political organ.
I can't say the same of Berlusconi, who as italian prime minister insulted the memebr of european parliament Schultz and NEVER made his excuses to him.
That's the difference!

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | June 29, 2006 06:04 PM

ciao Beppe.
ieri, avevo scritto facendo il culo a Der Spiegel...hanno risposto; ecco la mail di scuse appena ricevuta:Dear Mr. Truono,

You have criticized the publication of Achim Achilles’s satire on Italy
on our Web site. We agree with you: the article is in poor taste. The
editors-in-chief of the news magazine DER SPIEGEL and the editor-in-chief
of SPIEGEL ONLINE regret publication of the satire on the Web site and
dissociate themselves from the content of the article.

The commentary has been removed from the SPIEGEL ONLINE Web site.

Yours sincerely,


>>Good Morning ( to anyone may be concerned)
>>I am Lucio Truono, an Italian worker that works for a German-speaking

Posted by: lucio truono | June 29, 2006 03:00 PM

dear all,
sorry for writing in Italian yesterday,
but the Italian page was not working and
I was feeling too much indigned with the article to resist...I think most of us overreacted
and played the game of this "journalist"
anyhow, thinking about this matter with "could mind" I am sure this is the product
of an idiot looking for the scandal to let
people know him. what he says is bullshit full of old and stupid stereotypes, racism and ignorance. stop
but the editorialist should at least apoligize and fire this him, to demonstrate that it is a serious magazine and gives no space for intolerance, racism that creates hate between two neighbours and civilised countries.
there are many Italians living in germany with
German-Italian children and many Germans who decided to move to Italy because they love our Country. Our Alto Adige-Süd Tirol is a mixture of the German/Austrian and Italian culture.
so, why should insult each other?
we are not responsible for what Mussolini and Badoglio did and they are not responsible for what Hitler did. we just have to condamn
what was done in the past and look in to the future but to tolerate an article like this,
it will be a shame for both Countries.
Imagine an article on a famous Italian magazine speaking about the Germans as rudes, drunk, fat, without taste, racists, nazis or whatever.
I am sure Germans will react much stronger than us and they will have the right to do it.
So, to most of Germans, who are friendly and democratic people, freundlichen gruessen
and you are always very welcome in Italy!!!

Posted by: Paolo Antonio Lovi | June 29, 2006 01:10 PM

Hey Ronnie,

Personally I was not trying to offend you! At the contrary, I was just saying that the article (which wasn't really about football) shows that... brings people to make new wrong stereotypes about Germans. That's why, in my view, Germans should react against it. It is an offence to them.

Well... you were trying to provocate... so that's normal people reacting (somehow in a very colored way). Don't take it personal... you are just a blogger (without a name, a face, etc.). Racism does indeed start with small things.. that's the prove of the harmful consequences of such an article.

I believe der spiegel published an apology just because of opportunistic reasons. Many of its readers are italians in Germany (or friends of italians). Even German people did not like such an article. So... if they want to continue selling they must keep their audience happy. Yes, a newspaper can make mistakes, but pay for them (meaning the editor in chief and the "journalist" being fired... because they did not do properly their job and they ruined the credibility of their newspaper).

The article wasn't just saying that italians are mammone... it was more than that.

Well... enjoy the summer in Italy! I wish I could go to be "pelandrona" in the beach in Italy!!! (sigh) but I can't. So have fun and enjoy! (--> see? italians = friendly people) ;)

Posted by: chiara cosenza | June 29, 2006 07:02 AM

today was the first time i was writing on beppe grillo's blog.
and probably the last time, too.

talking about "german racism and superiority feeling", "neonazi movements in germany", "Nazi propaganda", "stupidity and ignorance" (talking about me?), "some conformist as.shole just like you" (me), "a piece of s.hit. And you are one of them" (also me), "incompetent frustrated stupid writer", crucco (me), "damn Adolf's descending" (me included), "germans tourist, people that in their own contry act like lords and when they come in Italy they feel free to shit everywhere" (i like that one!!:)), ect...

ALL that for an stupid article about a weak italian football team, which i didn't critisize the way most visitors of the blog would have expected??? ok, i have to admit i was trying to provocate as i thought the whole thing was a pretty rediculous argument. i had big success.

In the last 20 years i lived as a foreigner in italy, france, spain, and a quite a few month in costa rica and the u.s. and in all this time i did't get as much insults as today on this blog. VERY POOR level!!

yes, racism starts with small things!! don't you think??

By the way. Most of my friends are italian. some of them are pretty "mammone" but I like them anyway:)) nothing bad about it. I also call my little son "mammone" and i love him very much!!

P.S. I wonder if there will be anybody to apologize for an other stupid article, like "der spiegel" did for his??
Spiegel is a great magazine and for sure it did its part to make germany a less worse place (at least a little bit). everybody can make mistakes. irren ist menschlich!

Posted by: Ronny Kiaulehn | June 29, 2006 04:01 AM

Bravo Beppe! Sono d'accordo con te!

I believe that Germans should boycott Der Spiegel until that "want-to-be-journalist" and the chief-editor get fired. That is what happens when you do not do properly your job.

I also agree with what Beppe said in his last sentence. Those who should feel offended and should react are Germans. That article doesn't have anything to do with football (soccer), but it just shows a superiority feeling towards another nation. Which in the past lead to some really sad outcomes. It is not a "small thing". Italians didn't do anything to contribute to that article, but a German did.

I believe not all the Germans are the same and the majority of them refuse such an "article". However, those words do nothing but inforce stereotypes on German racism and superiority feeling. That's way Germans should react.

About stereotypes... do not underestimate them. When you go abroad for a job or to study...and you apply for something. Those stereotypes will come to the mind of those who should hire you. And this is just an example. Racism starts with small things. Furtheremore, I think that that "article" was deeply anti-european. Therefore against all the German government effort to inforce the European Union. (Again...thanks to that article "nationalistic" stereotypes about Germany are welcomed).

Dear Kiaulehm. I am sorry you do not like your experience in Italy. But you know, is not compulsory for you to stay in a country that you do not like. You can always go abroad and look for something better. I am an Italian abroad (I am now in Canada) and I have always had a deep respect towards the country and culture that hosts me.

I was also in Germany for a couple of months in Koln (Colonia). I speak fluently English, French, Spanish and Italian...nevertheless I could not use such languages with Germans, because most of them just speak german. Which is fine... they are in their country, so I am the one who is supposed to adapt to their culture, not them to me. That's why, if you decide to stay in Italy, you could make the effort to adapt. You will see after that, that people will be much more friendly to you.

And about Italians having stereotypes about foreigners... you are right. We have a lot of them. If you could tell me about a country that does not have stereotypes about foreigners I would be interested to learn. I did not find one yet. The difference is that they do not publish it on national newspaper. If they do...a huge scandal follows. Same thing for the "capo'" insult... everyone in Italy (that includes media) took distance and criticized such a thing.

Finally, I think we should figh stereotypes in our country... but that does not mean we should accept the ones abroad. (The fact that bad things happen shouldn't be an excuse to make them keep happening).

Oh... and that article was not funny at all

Posted by: Chiara Cosenza | June 28, 2006 11:50 PM

I know another italian guy, who was sweet-talking about italian sights and beauties, after saying to a german member of european Parliament he was like a Kapo! ;-)
I agree with Roberto & Catherine and with Blisco.
Beppe don't loose your sense of humor, please!

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | June 28, 2006 08:31 PM

the big battle is coming: tuesday bloody tuesday !!
olha ai a apimentadinha !!!

Posted by: adilson lopes | June 28, 2006 08:18 PM


Don't loose your cool!It is so easy to loose reson for anger and that's what these times are all about..We want your reasonable, wise and considering thinking!
Are you surprized that there are ignorant people in the whole world?
Maybe the article was just a heated reaction as that of your own...
By the way, the article at least talked about the role of women in italian society.
something that with all the self-criticism you claim, we hear very little about in italian official media...

Non confondere la nostra auto-commiserazione con auto-critica.
In fondo l'articolo faceva satira su luogi comuni che é difficle smentire. L'italiano medio "Luigi Forello" é anche famoso per la sua coda di paglia.
Scatta subito a sviolinare le bellezze del "Bel Paese" a chiunque osi criticarlo. Le Bellezze artistiche e la natura, in italia, ce le abbiamo trovate, e sono qui anche da molto tempo. Sarebbe ora di essere orgogliosi di qualcosa di nuovo.

Non essere Luigi Forello, sai beme che ci sono argomenti molto più importanti sui quali postare.

Un Abbraccio da un'Italiano e un bacio da una Tedesca

Posted by: Roberto e Catherine | June 28, 2006 08:16 PM

Napoleon during his campaign in Italy complains one day like this: Italiani tutti ladroni. (Italians all thieves)
And an italian who was near him said with a joke: Non tutti ma buonaparte (Not all but a good part of them) .
It’s a pity that a humorist like Grillo is loosing an occasion to make us laughing about the differencies between us and our neighbours. It’s not only pity but as I said to him above, I really start to believe that he doesn’t want to use his humor anymore.
This topic starts with an image which is coming from a popular comic strip where for many years in Italy many stories were drown and written to turn german soldiers like idiots.
So, what ? It would be honest to say that too. We are not good only in self-critics.
The translation of this article was found by Grillo on www.larepubblica.it where it’s written that the article was removed and Der Spiegel apologize. It is not honest to say only one part of the truth. That’s why I said that Grillo is grilled and Marco doesn’t mark any point.
Another occasion is lost by Galli and Lovi who they come in a english blog to say in italian
how much italians they are despite they are living and even born abroad.
So, are we falling down in this stupid talks about discrimination and send a letter to Prodi for that?
If this is a comic idea it’s not really funny.
Ronny, don’t worry, we are not bad. Not all but buonaparte

Posted by: Blisco Jaio | June 28, 2006 07:53 PM

Paolo Antonio Lovi | June 28, 2006 03:24 PM
Pur vivendo in Italia, ma sto tentando la via dell'estero anch'io visti i problemi economici e politici INRISOLVIBILI(purtroppo il vero LIMITE di noi italiani), la penso esattamente come te!
Se proprio dovessi cambiare nazionalità la scambierei soltanto con quella argentina.. in fondo son motli(di fatto TUTTI) italiani che parlano spagnolo, vivono all'inglese ma pensano in italiano.. ciao da un amico ovunque tu sia!

Posted by: Marco Berselli | June 28, 2006 07:09 PM

Maria C: I agree 100% with you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | June 28, 2006 07:08 PM

hei beppe...hai toppato
that seems polemics over a pub chat
that was just an article, a game over stereotypes...
and we have bad stereotypes over other nationalities as well, let's not pretend we are perfect and fair!
but i find amusing that the only ones to be offended by it are men...those that fit the stereotypes of the article LOL
do not be a mammone that want mum and dad prodi and merkel to defend them, be a man and think about something more serious than an article.
sleep baby sleep, italian men are perfect macho and sexy, no one doubt it...the germans are only envious...

Posted by: maria C | June 28, 2006 07:05 PM

You're welcome!

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | June 28, 2006 06:48 PM

Thank you Raffaella Biferale!!! Really wise words!!!

To Roselli Marco, really poor and primitive language.
is that your way to deal with people who have a differtent opinion of yours?

you should respect the blog's rules:
The following are not allowed:
4. messages containing offensive language

grazie mille!

Posted by: Ronny Kiaulehn | June 28, 2006 06:32 PM

Blisco, I agree with you!
I repeat what I wrote on the italian side:
#1: it was a satirical article on the sport page of the magazine Der Spiegel, a very serious magazine. I would like to have in Italy a magazine like Der Spiegel, unfortunetly we haven't it!
#2: the offending adjective (parasite) was removed by the editorial staff of the Spiegel, with the apologies from the magazine. I found it very politically correct!
#3:the article doesn't offend the "italian people" or the "italian nation", it's concerning the italian MALES, who are notoriously very "mammoni" and machos. I don't feel hurt by this article at all!!!!!!!!!!
#4: Prodi and Merkel have a lot af serious things to do, this case does not concern them!!!!!!!!
Beppe, I disagree totally with you!

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | June 28, 2006 05:40 PM

@ Roberto Longo
Both are faces of the same coin. You can't accept Mr Achilles' comments and condem "Bellachiomas".
As the letter of apologies on Der Spiegel website says, this person was to provide a piece at the limit of political correctness, and he failed miserably recurring to inane stereotypes.

Posted by: Luigi Forello | June 28, 2006 05:20 PM

TO Ronny Kiaulehn

You wanna know how? I'm used to live in europe with some conformist as.shole just like you, I can recognise a piece of s.hit.And you are one of them.

PS There are toilets, unfortunately damn Adolf's descending are too drunk to be able to use it...

Posted by: Roselli Marco | June 28, 2006 05:01 PM

Cari connazionali,
sono un italiano nato e cresciuto in Germania. Scusatemi, se c'è qualche errore grammaticale in quel che scrivo, ma mi sento di dire anche la mia. Tra l'altro questo modo di giornalismo di Achilles mi tocca molto come italiano residente in Germania.

Come dice Beppe Grillo, noi Italiani siamo i primi che sappiamo criticarci, e amettere i nostri sbagli. Sono di questa opinione anch'io, se comparata al modo di critica dei tedeschi.
Senza valutare troppo, questa abilità e onestà dei propri sbagli in Germania esiste poco. Sia nei Media, che in politica. Ma non voglio farne di tutto un fascio.
Ha tanti amici tedeschi che stimo molto per la loro fratellanza, e amicizia. Non mi permetterei di dire di loro che sono tutti uguali.
Purtroppo nello Sport la maggior parte non si comporta molto sportivamente. Ci sono tante cose che potrei portare come esempio, ma non finirei di scrivere.
In germania, le nazionali di Inghilterra e Olanda sono odiatissime. Credo che sia tutto lavoro dei Media. Da quel sputo di Raikard su Völler ai modiali del 90 non c'é stata più pace.
Non so perche odiano cosi tanto l'Inghilterra, ma verdrete che quest'odio sbattera anche sopra la nazionale italiana. Purtroppo ne risentiremo tanto anche noi italiani in germania. È quasi una virtù di tantissimi tedeschi farti male dicendo qualcosa di ingiusto sulla nostra nazionale.
Così sta a ognuno di noi se farci caso, perche non ne vale la pena.

Di loro non parleranno mai male come facciamo in Italia dei nostri. Non esiste un'autocritica sana.

È strano che nessuno parli dello scandalo delle scomesse sportive in germania, dove erano coinvolti arbitri e giocatori. Non si sente più nulla. Hanno risolto tutto così velocemente? Ne dubito!!!
Mentre se succede qualcose del genere in Italia, i giornali sono pieni e non solo in Italia, ma sopratutto in Germania.

Mi dispiace molto leggere queste cose su di noi in germania, sono molto amareggiato.
È una critica ingiusta.

Posted by: Nicolò Bozzella | June 28, 2006 04:59 PM

What is worse:
a generic German journalist writing some nonsense old stereotypes about Italians or an Italian Prime Minister naming "Kapo'" a German member of the European Parliament?

If, as I think, the journalist's aim is to provoke I would just ignore him. Getting angry is just adding oil on an useless and dangerous fire.

Posted by: Roberto Longo | June 28, 2006 04:41 PM

Hi Guys,

My name is Gabriele , no Luigi, I spent my vacation on the Adriatico coast only once, I was 17, I live in Stockholm and I do not think I have had sex with any of the writer´s relatives ( did I?).

By the way what was writer´s target,what was Der Spiegel target?
Totti, the football team, the Italian nation, the italians, me?

If the target was to insult all the italians ( if the italian translated version is correctly done because I have not read the german) the mission is accomplished. Well done.

This miserable amateur writer should blame himself, for the way he pursues to gain attention.

About Der Spiegel´s editor: look yourself in the "Mirror" and think about Luigi : he is your neighbour,your relative and yourself, you do not need to go to the Adriatico coast.

Posted by: Gabriele Arrighetti | June 28, 2006 03:51 PM

@ Ronny Kiaulehn
Ronny, I can't imagine a whatevername Hitler in politic, but I **can** read, see and hear of neonazi movements in Germany, so please spare us your misguided sermons. This "holier than thou" image you are trying to portray serves nothing. Least your anedoctal arguments.

Posted by: Luigi Forello | June 28, 2006 03:41 PM

To Marco "the proud italian" Roselli,

sorry but i am not german. and i don't care about football.

all my respect, you must be able to see the difference between german and italian shit. how do you do this?? i maybe got a solution for your problem...get some toilets!!

Posted by: Ronny Kiaulehn | June 28, 2006 03:36 PM

é questa la risposta a questo antiitalianismo diffuso all'Estero.
si, perché alla fine risultiamo troppo simpatici per essere odiati come altri popoli e allora
se la ridono utilizzando i soliti vecchi stantii clichés. in parte é colpa degli italoamericani.
troppi film su quei quattro mafiosi di merda dimenticandosi dei milioni di italiani che hanno sgobbato e portato l'inventiva nostrana in tutto il mondo. artigiani,costruttori, cuochi, barbieri, pizzaioli, gelatai, artisti, musicisti, inventori, stilisti. tantissimi, troppi, danno fastidio.
se poi ci aggiungi il 60% del patrimonio dell'Unesco, il 5' paese piú industrializzato del mondo (malgrado la recessione)la musica, la moda, le invenzioni (radio, telefono, aerei a reazione...) le scoperte (come Colombo, che in Spagna chiamano Colon e negano che fosse genovese e dunque italiano).
ai clichés vecchi si sono aggiunti quelli nuovi:
Berlusconi e i suoi centinaia di processi, le sparate della Lega, Tangentopoli...ma alla fine quello che ancora gli rode il c... é il voltafaccia di Badoglio. volevano che morissimo tutti con il duce combattendo fino all'ultimo, come hanno fatto loro, per difendere quel mostro sanguinario del loro dittatore...bravi!!!
certo, venendo da un paese freddo, grigio, con una cucina orribile, un passato recente da fare rabbrividire, una moda da spaventare i bambini, be effettivamente, saremmo invidiosi anche noi.
alla fine, l'antiitalianismo, soprattutto di stampo crucco ma non solo, é come l'antisemitismo, solamente una questione
mit freundlichen gruessen
ps: vivo all'estero, mia moglie é straniera,
so di cosa parlo perché queste cose le vivo personalmente sulla mia pelle.
non me ne puó fregá de meno del calcio, ma se giochiamo con la Germania...che goduria se vinciamo!!! e se no che vinca l'Argentina, il paese piú affine a noi (scambierei la mia cittadinanza se fossi costretto, solo con la loro....).

Posted by: Paolo Antonio Lovi | June 28, 2006 03:24 PM

Al crucco Ronny Kiaulehn
Oh, it's so sad! You, victim of racism from people that don't speak any other language exceipt Italian. Have you ever been in Germany as Italian? I don't think so. Because if you do, you'll see that your friends are not different from Italians.
So, please, stop cryin' for Germans tourist, people that in their own contry act like lords and when they come in Italy they feel free to shit everywhere they want (example parks of Monza,during gran prix).


Posted by: Marco Roselli | June 28, 2006 03:02 PM

tanto ridere non fa proprio.... io vivo da oltre dieci anni in germania e noto di volta in volta come una patina subliminale di arroganza e complesso di superiorità (non necessariamente razzista) condita da pregiudizi ( ben tratteggiati da Paolo Villaggio in alcuni suoi libri), alcuni di questi signori non se la sono mai tolta del tutto. È vero - come commenta Kaiulehn - che anche in Italia imperano luoghi comuni beceri e grossolani verso i tedeschi; non ricordo però di averli mai visti pubblicare da settimanali nazionali.. e a cadenza periodica, visto che non è proprio la prima uscita del genere (pistola sugli spaghetti tanto per citarne una)
Der Spiegel, a cui ero abbonato fino ad oggi, ha comunque sempre tenuto una linea editoriale, nei confronti dei temi italiani, soprattutto di costume, palesemente caratterizata da luoghi comuni: forse un tentativo di esorcizzare la progressiva "italianizzazione" dei costumi tedeschi?

Dal tenore dell'articolo tuttavia traspare un'acrimonia che travalica l'ironia o il sarcasmo: a questo signore forse hanno insultato il cane-lupo o qualche bagnino intraprendente ha rivolto qualche attenzione di troppo alla sua fidanzata, giusto per non cadere in luoghi comuni: certo che se gli basta che la Germania vinca i mondiali (o una seminfinale) perche Herr Achilles possa ritenere saldati i conti aperti dalle vacanze, deve essere messo tanto maluccio...

Posted by: davide galli | June 28, 2006 03:02 PM

Ok, there is one more incompetent frustrated stupid writer to ignore. I don't think that italian prime minister has to talk with the Chancellor Merkel. Germany is a democratic country where everyone is free to write anythink he likes (i hope), and to show is stupidity and ignorance too.

Posted by: Luigi La Vespa | June 28, 2006 02:43 PM

Heil Beppe!!! First of all...I didn't think you would get this low.
I am living in italy since almost 20 years now and I had plenty of time to get to know italian mentality. Specialy regarding foreigners.
I have to admit that even after 20 years i cannot hide my native accent and for this i am confrontated daily with very primitive jokes regarding my not so perfect italian. specialy from people that don't even speak anything else than their own language..italian. Italians are the first when it is about to hurt somebody and the very first to feel hurt by others. I am living in a tourist region in the north and you wouldn't believe how much "razism" and complains we got here against german tourists and their mentality. "Struntz" leave your money and go home!! Sometimes i wish germans wouldn't come here for one year so the local economics would get back to stone age and the italian hospitality would maybe improve.
I always had the impression that italians were really appreciated in germany but not the other way around. Still today germans here in italy get confrontated with their nazism past (as you can also see in some other posts and your really stupid immage above) as in the same time a relative of adolf's best friend benito got into italian politics....could you immagine a Michael Hitler in german politics???
To be honest the italians do not deserve to be still in the world cup after the really shitty perfomance they have shown and i would like to invite the team who will kick out these "bunch of mammones" for dinner at my home:)) so the italian boys can go back home to cry at their mothers breast.

Posted by: Ronny Kiaulehn | June 28, 2006 02:26 PM

The article has been removed from SPIEGEL with an apology that is was insulting and should not have gone online first place without editorial edits as it did.

It has been part of a regular column which is probably the reason why it passed the editorial control.

It seems that indeed many Germans saw the article as an insult to Italians AND Germans.

Posted by: Thomas Fabian | June 28, 2006 02:09 PM

No stream of libelling words can ever be considered humorous, and I wonder about the target audience of Der Spiegel. Journalism knows better. It is clearly the case the Der Spiegel's editorial control has failed. Good journalism is the reporting of facts and their sound interpretation, rather than fiction. Despite all possible words of apology by the Editor, which are not expected but would be very much appreciated, Der Spiegel has lost its reputation.

Posted by: Luca dellaPenna | June 28, 2006 01:26 PM

If someone is grilled here, this is Blisco jaio.

The article in Der Spiegel is very much irritating and we must protest against it!!! A magazine with a minimum of decency should NOT be publishing such rubbish. It is very much like Nazi propaganda.

The fact is, these kinds of persons such as this brainless "journalist" are angry against the italian people because we are more beautiful than average germans, we live a better life than the average german, our cities are much more beautiful than the german ones, we enjoy better climate, better food, than germans do. That's why they invade our beaches and mountains as soon as they have the occasion of leaving their ugly places!!!

I live abroad, and if I CAN criticize my country, a frustrated idiot must not be allowed to write this shit in a journal with such a large diffusion as DER STRONZEN.

And football has nothing to do with this.

VIVA L'ITALIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Marco Marchi | June 28, 2006 01:12 PM

Immaginazione geniale Signor Klein ;-)
Visto cosi fa decisamente ridere!

Posted by: Betty Casu | June 28, 2006 12:33 PM

Grillo you are grilled.
If italians are like you say there will be no difference if this is said by theirselves or by foreigners.
On the other hand, if you are doing like Der Spiegel you are only a pale mirror of what you can be if instead of loosing your temper you are loosing your humor.
Italian soccer team is not winning with panache but winning with tricks and two weeks ago you were whishing their defeat. Don’t you? We have the chance to be provoked by germans. It’s up to us to accept to fight or to run away. It would be not the first time we win against them in soccer matches. Why to put oil on the fire? I start to believe than to feed this blog you are ready to do like der Spiegel: Polemics.

Posted by: Blisco Jaio | June 28, 2006 10:51 AM

A me quell'articolo ha fatto parecchio ridere invece, non riuscivo a non immaginarmi l'autore ciccione e sudaticcio che schiumava mentre, al caldo dell'estate tedesca, scriveva senza poter distogliere il pensiero dall'ultima estate italiana, dove nella canicola della spiaggia mediterranea aveva definitivamente perso l'attenzione della moglie. Ah ah ah, poveraccio...

Posted by: Harri Klein | June 28, 2006 10:39 AM

Sono Italiana,vivo in Germania da sette anni e sono una lettrice dello "Spiegel" che va detto e' un prestigioso settimanale di qualita' che nulla ha che fare col "Sun" che trova piuttosto il suo alter ego tedesco in giornali come la Bild. Leggendo "la repubblica" di ieri sono rimasta un po' perplessa e ho cercato il cosidetto articolo direttamente alla fonte.
In realta' nn si tratta di un articolo e' un fondo scritto da una persona, nn userei il termine giornalista perche' nn mi pare adeguato, che ama scrivere pezzi sempre molto ironici e sarcastici e fa un vanto di queste sue armi pungenti. Certo e' piuttosto pesante, ma letto due volte di seguito gia' perde la sua carica stemperandosi in luoghi comuni!Sinceramente nn credo sia il caso di farne un affare di stato chiamando in causa la Signora Merkel e il Signor Prodi!

Posted by: Betty Casu | June 28, 2006 10:33 AM

I’m sure the majority of decent Germans read Der Spiegel as most of us would read a comic book. As a source of amusement not of serious journalism. It’s probably like the British "Sun" newspaper. I wouldn’t take it seriously. The germans are a great people. They love a drink too!

Posted by: pat kerr | June 28, 2006 10:18 AM


Posted by: Renzo Lenzi | June 28, 2006 10:09 AM

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