Immigration is Taboo

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The word immigration is taboo. Something that you have to talk about in ‘politically correct’ ways to avoid being called a racist. By definition, the immigrant needs help and is trying to survive in Italy.

The Minister Ferrero has declared: ” … it’s necessary to propose an articulated strategy. First of all we must facilitate the legal entries to our country” and “in the continent of Africa there may be 30 million young people in the age group 18 to 25 who are ready to leave their homes and loved ones” and finally: “they are the ones who come to do the work that often the Italians no longer want to do .. today we have to understand that we have become a country of immigration”.

These declarations are irresponsible even though they are “electorally correct” for the party of the Minister Ferrero. Italy is still a country of emigration. At one time it was the farming community that emigrated, today it is the graduate community. Italy has a density of inhabitants in the territory among the highest in the world. In comparison, the United States is depopulated and Africa is a desert. It’s not true that Italians no longer want to do “certain jobs”. But what are these jobs?

The thousands of posts that I have received in the “modern slaves” section bear witness to the contrary. They describe a generation of Italians paid a few hundred Euro a month or unemployed. Young men and young women who would jump at the chance of doing “certain jobs” but in safe conditions and with a decent salary.

But the “certain jobs” are those of the tiny factories that import underpaid workers and then throw the social costs on to the community. That gives advantages to the small-time bosses, not to the Italian economy.
Ferrero talks about young men who want to emigrate to rich countries, not families.

But there are hundreds of millions of young people like that in the world. How many CPT {Centri di Permanenza Temporanea e Assistenza= Italy's detention centres for foreigners} are needed to house them? Is the house of the Minister big enough? This demagogy is dangerous.

The migration flows must be handled at the origin. The most developed nations should put aside a part of their GDP, at least as much as they spend on arms, better if its in places of arms, to help poor countries. Distributing wealth throughout the world so as to avoid importing slaves and social instability.

Posted by Beppe Grillo at 03:15 PM in | Comments (52)
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Eva:to understand the meaning of this you must go to the post about Nazi publishing and read all our comments.;-))))))

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | August 28, 2006 10:59 AM


Drinking cranberry juice,for incontinence problems? or cistitys?

Posted by: evakulnura | August 28, 2006 08:39 AM


ehehehheeheh! I don't like cranberry juice, is too sweet.
;-)

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | August 27, 2006 07:18 PM


Raf, watch your cranberry juice.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | August 27, 2006 06:52 PM


I know, Prince, and I think you did the right thing.
PS)Don't you understand my jokes anymore? ;-))))) HOW could I think you were a brave guy!

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | August 27, 2006 06:17 PM


I'm not brave.
I'm just trying to feel better.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | August 27, 2006 05:57 PM


Prince: I always thought you were a brave guy! ;-)))))))

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | August 27, 2006 04:51 PM


For me it's just water and juice now.
Beer gut and stomach aches are now a far memory.
I usually didn't exagerate (only with meals at night) but now I feel better and I don't feel the crave because of this.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | August 27, 2006 03:55 PM


Even worse is trying to drive in the right direction when you are yourself full of chardonnay and you see sidelong the police coming! !!!;-))))))))))
That is the cruel destiny of singles!;-))))))))))

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | August 27, 2006 12:51 PM


Sorry guys,I am not a drinker,I go to sleep after one glass,and also I got to drive my husband back home,he is the drinker in the family,and the back sit driver as well,nothing worst that have a husband full of chardonnay, tellin me the best way, to go home,ciao :-)))))))

Posted by: evakulnura | August 27, 2006 08:16 AM


Eva, as italian, if what you think is true,I owe you a good bottle of Brunello di Montalcino!
;-))))))))

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | August 27, 2006 03:31 AM


Eva, if what you think is true, I owe you a six-pack of XXXX beer.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | August 27, 2006 12:09 AM


I know, is the beginning :-)))

Posted by: evakulnurae | August 26, 2006 11:59 PM


There are very few real ones.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | August 26, 2006 04:43 PM


Raf I mean real one,not the trendy one,:-)))

Posted by: evakulnurae | August 26, 2006 09:00 AM


Eva: you know, nowdays every company wanna be a ethical company, but only because it sounds better by the public opinion. I agree with Prince when he says that the most big corporations are financial sharks without any respect for ethical principles. You know, I come from another planet too, and I wish a better world where ethical values would be important, but that's not our world, not yet.
:-)

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | August 25, 2006 02:48 PM


I worked for 16 years for a company that is now in the stockmarket.
Since the stockmarket issue has been pushed to its limits by the CEO, we seen some change in company ethics: quality and customer's relation is not anymore top priority and a lot of skilled people, including myself, left this company because of this and also because we were seen as high costs.
Of course we tried to explain and show the reason of this "high cost" but all we got was to be treated as numbers and "order executer", let alone the fact that we were treated, along with everybody else, like crap due to high demandings from "upstairs" which were followed by nervous response from a lot of employees.
It's a little bit like being a lion in a cage with other lions that were waiting to jump at each other throat, while the owner of the zoo is outside watching with pleasure.

Compared to other big corporations this is a dwarf: just imagine the proportion with bigger companies, where these behaviours are pushed beyond any understandable limit because of the shareholders, and I'm not talking about old ladies that invested their lifetime savings
; I'm talking about financial sharks that don't have an ounce of respect for other people.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | August 25, 2006 01:52 PM


Raf and Prince,it is easy to blame the corporation,for everything,but let's remenber that the corporations works for the shareholders,now it will come a time when everybody that buy share,will have to take responsability as well,for everything that is goin on in this world,I do not buy share but if i did,I would make sure,that I invest my money with ethical company,that do not make money from working children,and with working hours and conditions that are just ridicolus,yes I am an idealist,I live with the fairy,and probabily come fron another planet,ciao :-)))

Posted by: evakulnura | August 25, 2006 12:49 AM


Prince: your description of globalization is right.
Eva: your description of globalization is wonderful, but unfortunatly not down-to-earth.:(((((

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | August 24, 2006 11:22 PM


For the big corporations, Globalisation means manufacturing goods in eastern and far eastern countries which are sold in western countries with the same price as when they were produced in the western countries, allowing those corporations to make outrageous amounts of money.

I wouldn't object if globalisation were like in Eva Kulnurae's description but in between this and the reality check there are light years.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | August 24, 2006 06:57 PM


PS. I am not against globalisation,I am for a globalisation were everybody in this world has a share of the cake,and we all can live well.ciao

Posted by: evakulnurae | August 24, 2006 05:29 AM


If all this immigrants had,a good job at home,democracy,freedom,and happy living,they won't be coming to europe,the problem is globalisation,and all the greed that come with it,I think there is plenty in this world to share,same countrys want more then other,and the result is there for all to see,caos caos and more caos,more laws won't solve the immigration issue,you got to go where the problem start,at home in the country of origine,that's what the governments should do,help them to help themself.ciao

Posted by: evakulnurae | August 24, 2006 05:24 AM


Raffaella 100% correct!!! You couldn't expect anything else from an immigrant and working mother of two....could you??? :o))

Posted by: paola filinesi | August 23, 2006 10:39 AM


Non è affatto vero che dell' immigrazione “si deve parlare in modo 'politically correct' per non passare da razzisti”: al contrario, se ne parla, anche a sinistra, senza verificare informazioni o analisi, ripercorrendo stereotipi e schemi del senso comune più degradato, falsificando dati elementari. Purtroppo l'intervento sul sito di Beppe Grillo ne contiene molti, a cominciare da quello secondo il quale gli immigrati dai paesi poveri sono destinati ai lavori “delle fabbrichette che importano mano d'opera sotto pagata e scaricano i costi sociali sulla comunità. E avvantaggiano i padroncini, non l'economia italiana”. Che questa tentazione da parte dei datori di lavoro ci sia non significa che gli immigrati di cittadinanza non italiana non cerchino “condizioni di sicurezza e uno stipendio dignitoso”: si informi chi scrive così sulle centinaia di delegati sindacali di origine non italiana, eletti dai loro colleghi anche autoctoni per le loro capacità, le loro scelte, i loro comportamenti.
La battuta sui CPT (“Quanti Cpt sono necessari per ospitarli? La casa del ministro è abbastanza capiente?”) è, con ogni evidenza, qualunquistica, e nasconde il fatto che i CPT non sono Case per immigrati lavoratori, ma centri di detenzione incivili e lager dove si viene spediti senza aver compiuto alcun crimine, e spogli di diritti che qualsisai carcerato avrebbe. Ci si informi, prima di falsificare questo dato, e magari ci si dia da fare perché non esistano tali luoghi.
Infine, l'intervento conclude: “I flussi migratori vanno gestiti all'origine. Le nazioni più sviluppate dovrebbero destinare una parte del loro Pil, almeno quanto spendono in armi, magari al posto delle armi, per aiutare i Paesi poveri. Distribuire la ricchezza nel mondo per non importare schiavi e instabilità sociale.” Fini, che è (F-I-N-I), diceva cose simili nella campagna elettorale del 1994: poi qualcuno gli ha spiegato che destinare più soldi ai paesi poveri (azione di per sé encomiabile e urgente per mille altri motivi) non inciderebbe per alcuni decenni sulle migrazioni internazionali, e che noi di fatto stiamo frenando gli arrivi in Italia (necessariamente illegali, data la qualità dei provvedimenti governativi sugli ingressi legali) pattugliando le coste, a volte rovesciando navi e barconi, stringendo convenzioni con paesi, come la Libia, che buttano i migranti a marcire in luoghi infernali e li rimandano indietro, a morire nel deserto in viaggi di ritorno su cui esiste un'informazione raggiungibile anche da Grillo e dai suoi letto-scrittori.


Posted by: Giuseppe Faso | August 23, 2006 10:26 AM


Paola, you are right! I think also that social care is governement's responsability, but in Italy we are very far from this objective. I think that the immigrants could be a very important resource for our country,and for this reason we should promote their full integration in our society. That means to make the regularizations easier, and to guarantee equal pay, conditions being equal. I think that a multi-ethnic society would be better for everybody.

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | August 23, 2006 10:13 AM


COMPLETELY OT (OFF TOPIC)

In case anybody wanders....I will be in the Veneto area (where my family is from) for the next couple of days so....
I leave you in peace.....:o))

Posted by: paola filinesi | August 23, 2006 08:56 AM


We are addressing a very big issue here with many aspects....
Giovanni is talking about jobs lost because we teach/want our children to become scientists (good or bad is doesn't matter) as long as, out of bride, we can tell our neighbors that my son is a doctor/architect etc and not a car mechanic or plumber....This is what modern society has turned us parents into, not any particular government....
Rafaela and Enrico are talking about different kind of jobs that have to do with social care/providence...this IS the responsibility of the government! Elderly people, young working mothers and families with many children should be provided by the government and not rely on each families income (if they can afford to pay for an immigrant help of not).

Immigrant help of course is much cheaper, not to mention the fact that because they usually have no documents, it gives us the advantage to treat them any way we want...
We are the fist to break the law...we accept immigrant help because we feel superior, we want immigrants not out of magnanimity but because it suits us in terms of money....we don't really care about them...
So instead of correcting our own way of thinking we put the blame on governments...We,individuals have the power to change our way of living but we choose the easy way out and put the blame on others

Posted by: paola filinesi | August 23, 2006 08:24 AM


Yes, Enrico, and because of this we must change this horrible Bossi Fini law, in order to make the immigration easier!

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | August 23, 2006 02:05 AM


Raffaella,
my mother is 94, mostly incapacitated and is looked after by a Rumanian Badante also 24/7. This lady is working in Italy without a work permit and sends all her wages to her starving family in Rumania. These jobs are very demanding, awfully boring and few Italians would accept work of this nature.

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | August 23, 2006 01:58 AM


May be there are a lot of immigrants who are ready to learn this job, and many others "dirty" jobs, which are refused by italians. For this reason I think that immigrants are the real last resort our's country!

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | August 23, 2006 01:54 AM


Housemaids?
The nation needs also skilled mechanics.
Very few people nowadays likes to learn a job like this because a lot of people doesn't want to work with their hands in the oil.
An Italian company that I know took 2 years to find a young guy motivated enough to learn the machinist trade from the older guy that now will retire.They finally found this young lad that will take over that job in a few years.
He will sacrify himself for a couple of years but later he will always have a well paid job.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | August 23, 2006 01:38 AM


I spent a couple of days in Pesaro by my family. I have a old aunt, 95 years old, and she has a russian housemaid who takes care of her, 24/7. We need immigrants, without them we haven't any chance to take care our's elderlies. That's only one exemple of thousand.

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | August 23, 2006 12:39 AM


It depends always from who decides who are the weaks and how weak he thinks they must be.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | August 22, 2006 06:45 PM


"Sono per il rispetto della legge senza dimenticare che questa va usata per proteggere i più deboli"

"I am of the opinion that law must be respected never forgetting to apply it in a way to protect the weaker ones among us"
Romano Prodi

It remains to be seen...

Posted by: paola filinesi | August 22, 2006 06:36 PM


Giovanni has a good point. For example, for an allegedly "free" country, the USA has a lot of laws, which just means more lawyers basically, someone we could really do without! Unfortunately the UK is going that way too, not surprising when most of the current Govt trained as liars, sorry, I meant lawyers! :-)

John

Posted by: Johhn | August 22, 2006 02:46 PM


More laws sometimes means more outlaws.
Let's not forget that everybody needs to eat everyday.
Before, to every immigrant to Australia, USA, Canada, etc., was granted a job.
Today, because of too many laws made by stupid politicians or sly businessmen, immigrants are almost forced to operate above the law because of this need to eat and sleep every day.
Government and business are ignoring these needs because they just want to exploit those people like slaves and at the same time keep the rest of legitimate citizens under a cap of fear and sense of guilt.
Until everybody will learn to not depend from those 2 big powers, there will always be "outlaws" and slaves.
The more we wait, the more this problem will expand in all its negative combinations.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | August 22, 2006 01:56 PM


Emanuela,Pls don't take me wrong but you are ONLY 36!! You have another at least 30 years of productive work to offer.
Could the same be said if you had stayed in Italy???

Posted by: paola filinesi | August 22, 2006 01:43 PM


Exactly so John, I used to be a Bank Auditor based in London many years ago....my salary was £13.000 per year.. My colleague from Iraq doing the same job got £ 6.000...!! Who was to complain?? I was expensive but valuable at the time, he was cheap but there weren't many like him; now it is vice versa!!

Italy has had almost 60 governments after 1946 (!!!) isn't that something to speculate on??

Posted by: paola filinesi | August 22, 2006 01:36 PM


I have left Italy 3 years ago for a better life in Australia. I am a migrant and have been treated as that. I am not allowed to work with my profession, physiotherapy, because the authorities have to make sure I am not dangerous for the public and so I have to be assessed, even if I have completed one year postgraduate Master in Sports Physiotherapy in an Australian University.

The assessment consists of two exam impossible to pass unless you try 3 or 4 times with great cost and waiting periods. Of course the category wants to control the market and certainly doesn't like people coming "to steal" their jobs.

After nearly 3 years I am nearly at the end. I have been living on savings as I don't have any other qualification that suits the migration department, not to mention that I am over 30 years old, 36 exactly, (close to retirement!), and so I have never had a permission to work, not even picking fruit. At this stage I have spent around 55.000euros, my parents'savings of an entire life of work. I am nearly at the end of the process now and finally I will get the right to stay and work (touch wood).

But the Government here promotes overseas skilled migration as they have a big labour shortage especially in the health system. Then we come here and we are not allowed to practise our profession. I know heaps of people in my same situation here. At the end if you resist and have enough money to waste till the end, then you get into the system and you have a pretty good life. But in the meantime you are left with the crumbs and you have to start from the beginning again and especially recover from a nervous breakdown or serious depression, as the humiliations you have to put up with day by day are incredible, and hey I didn't arrive on a boat! Every country is the same.

Posted by: Emanuela | August 22, 2006 01:28 PM


I think Paola hit the nail on the when she says "Establishing fair laws and applying those laws". The main thing the application of law; that seems to be the main problem. In lots of places, but more so in Italy than other similarly developed countries in my experience, the application of the law is very unbalanced. The more money you have, the less the laws apply. The most extreme case is Berlusconi (in more than one sense!), where rather than just avoid laws applying to him, he actively sought to corrupt the whole democratic process by changing laws specifically to favour himself. It's little wonder that people would decide that enough is enough and the only way out is to go elsewhere.

Peversely, Italian emmigration and foreign immigration into Italy is hugely beneficial to people like Berlusconi. New sources of cheap labour who feel less able to question their rights . There is the same problem emerging here in Britain now. While the government here claim there are lots of jobs, these jobs are targeting to the recent influx of Eastern European (600,000 plus) workers. That means the market allows a choice of a cheaper labour source. Great while the economy is somewhat strong, but will be disaster when the enivitable cycle of the economy turns in future.

John

Posted by: John | August 22, 2006 11:13 AM


An Italian engineer earn 1200-1500 euros per month with a "contratto atipico" or what the hell you want to call it. He (it) work 10-15 hours per day, pays an huge amount of taxes to the board of engineers (because he is an employee but he is hired as an independent consultant). He will have a pension of 300 euros (maybe) and get a net income of 1000 euros per month (official statistics). Yes. There are a lot of jobs Italian doesn't want to do. Maybe because they cannot survive and they are tired to live in such a situation. Thanks god i've already left.

Posted by: luigi bressan | August 22, 2006 11:03 AM


Franco, Orderly immigration was not exactly what happened in the US in the 19th century...What about the famous Gang leaders and the nice Italian reputation they built for our nation???
Of course the majority of the people who migrate are those hoping for a better future and of course we cannot exclude that among them (where ever they come from) there will also be scum....but hey....the laws of a country are those who establish order.

By banning immigrants it doesn't mean that Italy will be safer(less graffiti on the walls etc) and there will be better working conditions for Italians and higher weidges...

Immigrants are not Italy's problem and neither are they to other countries for that matter...
Establishing fair laws and applying those laws is the problem and when this can be achieved then I think many fields of social and economical aspects of life will improve.

Posted by: paola filinesi | August 22, 2006 10:16 AM


Dear Beppe, I'm an ex migrant myself, let me say I understand all the reasons behind this flux of people into Europe; what I can't understand is the stupidity and blindness of our politicians (EU included). Opening the gate is not an answer to African poverty: africans have to love to stay in their land, lets help them to create jobs and sustain their economy first. Other big issue is the population control (I hate this term..), how can we help those in Italy to get housing, jobs, decent health assistance, education ect. if we can't know where they live, how they live, if they work or not, if they understand our rules..
Certainly many companies of welfare and "not profit" couldn't survive today without this uncontrolled migration, ..actually is a big business to us (..and a too big issue for our microcaephalitic polititian to solve). I'm unable to give the right medicine to all this mess but definitely I'm sure that an establishment of a special licence for migrants will easy the pressure and produce good for all.(so before anything potential migrants must understand language, rules, costumes, history, and culture; without these elements is not safe for them to work here, and I would say is not safe for us as wel.
Cheers
Frank

Posted by: Frank Parignani | August 22, 2006 04:05 AM


Before you guys insult Italian migrants and compare them to the illigal immigrants invading Italy, get your facts right. Italians migrated for economic reasons that is true. However Italians were invited by the host country to migrate there. In fact, in a lot of cases, the migrants were assisted by the host country to migrate by having their travel fare paid for. Before migrating Italians were subject to police checks to ensure they were of good character. They also had to undergo medical checks to ensure they had no infectious deases. When the migrants arrived, they went straight into jobs. They did not live in slums, roam the streets in gangs or assault locals. They brought culture, fashion and good eating to the host countries. They were not a burden on the social welware system, but to the contrary they contributed greatly to the economy of the host countries. Can this be said about the clandestines to Italy? I doubt it very much.
To those that talk about moral obligations, I say RUBBISH! The obligation of the Italian government is first and foremost to the Italians. Do you place anybody else above your own children? As an Italian living abroad I am very concerned about the future of Italy. I don't want the Italians to disappear as a people and I don't want "il bel paese" from becoming "the ugly country". And believe me it's already starting to happen. On my last trip to Italy I have never seen so many graffiti on the walls of many churches and monuments in languages other than Italian. I have never seen so many pedlars of sunglasses and other junk, and so many beggars in the cities of Italy.

I believe in orderly migration as something useful and beneficial but definetely not in disorderly migration, because it's harmful not only to the host country but also the the immigrants themselves who tend to be exploited by unscrupulous locals. Order and not chaos should be the way foreward.

Posted by: Franco D'Alessi | August 22, 2006 03:42 AM


Well said Robert,
many Italians left Italy out of desperation, like my grandfather who migrated to Reno Nevada from the supposedly rich North at the end of the 19th Century to work in unhealthy silver mines. He worked hard and made a small fortune establishing later on a transportation Company. Unfortunately for him he decided return to Italy and lost all his savings during the second World War, so you can say that Italy screwed him twice.
I will never make his mistake and, as I said before, I left Italy for good.

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | August 22, 2006 12:28 AM


Dear Beppe

Is your memory so short?

Many millions of Italians migrated overseas in the post war years because they were starved and had no jobs or future in Italy. Just like the immigrants coming in now. They went to the U.S. Australia, Canada, UK, Germany, Argentina and other countries. It was hard and difficult for them but the countries they went to, accepted them and allowed them to build their future. They became part of those nations yet were allowed to retain their culture and in return the immigrants helped build those nations economically, socially, civilly and democratically.

Those Italian immigrants were economic refugees escaping a poverty stricken life just like the many economic refugees who try and migrate to Italy. Why should these immigrants to Italy be any different from Italians who migrated?

I might also remind you that many of the people who try to enter Italy are refugees or asylum seekers from countries with civil unrest, war or political persecution. As a signatory to the 1951 UNHCR (international treaty on refugees) Italy has an obligation under international law to accept people into the country if they are asylum seekers.

Lastly I would add that it is not “politically correct” to want to be fair and just to all people. It is a moral position. You seem to want only immigrants that you personally think would fit well into Italian society. However it is racist and xenophobic to want to exclude people simply on economic, social, religious or ethnic grounds.

I hope all Italians stop their xenophobia and also stop blaming the influx of immigrants as the cause of many of Italy’s problem – present and possible future ones. If Italy has problems it’s because Italians themselves have been shitting in their own backyards for decades causing the whole country to stink.

The Italians have ruined Italy themselves. No genuine immigrant I know of would want to ruin the country in which they a hoping to build a future in for themselves and their families.

Posted by: Robert Tuppini | August 21, 2006 11:34 PM


When Arab, Asian, African Muslims complain about the occupiers in their country they are labelled terrorist, extremist, fanatics etc. Why is that Europeans can bitch 365 days about those they treat like slaves and get them to do jobs and at the end of the month do not even pay them and get away with it and they can complain but not others??

Like you the African, Asians and Arabs do not want mass murderers, serial killers, rapists, torturers and the scum of Europe in their lands. The people have neither invited them nor are they welcomed. It is the western imposed despotic government who have given prime land to these occupiers.

So no doubt you all will correct your rhetoric next time you start spewing out your CNN7FOX/SKY/BBC brain washed propaganda.

Once a very brave Angolan journalist from the resource rich African state that Walter Veltroni has chosen as his 2nd group of chosen people aid: "We do not need your crumbs of aid. Just get the hell out of our countries. We will decvide the price of OUR resorces and we will decide who to sell it to."

This journalist has been tortured and jailed four times by the US/UK/France/Italy propped up government.
Where the diamond death squards of western europe and their chosen are enriching themselves.
Italy went in Angola with the excuse of building the railway. Not a single rail track had been laid after 10 nyears but the resorces of the rich African state have been diminishing.


Posted by: Marcia Visanji | August 21, 2006 10:10 PM


First I must inform Christian that they DO NOT shoot at boats with immigrants approaching the Greek coast lines...If anything close to it would have been to warn Turkish boats carrying illegal immigrants reaching Turkey (on foot (!!) from Iraq,Iran,Afganistan and paying thousands of dollars with the false promise of a safe voyage....NOT to come close or ELSE they would be shot at...Usually those performing the illegal trafficking of people don't give a dam about their passengers and they just carry on and most of the times know when to jump ship and turn back ; where as the people they carry have never been close to sea and don't even know how to stay on the surface. These poor souls are then rescued by the Greek authorities and given medical assistance.

Anyway,going back to the actual article most European countries face the same problems with immigrants...They seek new opportunities and require low wages and they don't complain living under the worst possible conditions.

Poor and ill governed counties create immigrants; if these counties are helped the number of immigrants will decrease.

ps.I was born abroad and propably will live abroad for the rest of my life.My family is Italian,I speak Italian,my only document is my Italian passport, feel more Italian than most if I come back to Italy what will this make me???
An immigrant or an Italiana dal Estero??(aka immigrant??)

Posted by: paola filinesi | August 21, 2006 06:40 PM


I think this EU-immigration problem is a problem of all countries (West-Europa). I think as well that 'Barroso'has to deal very fast with that problem. Italy and Spain are the two countries where these boats arrive; that's not the fault of these 2 countries; the other countries have to help them (by a EU-strategy). Turn it around: if you were living in Africa, without TV, Internet etc. and you as a poor person gets to know by voice all nice stories of the other (rich....well....a little doubt is there)side of the sea, then (if you want to have a better life) you just jump into a boat and leaves for a better world. Long ago the Dutch went to Canada, the Italians came to Holland and so on. Because the world is changing very fast; we need a solution. I rather see 'danger'with all the people coming from East-Europe to West-Europe. In Holland they prepare 'Poland-parks': lots of people can live there quite cheap and take the work what the Dutch who are unemployed can you as well !Ant what about the 'Dutch'who has to pay the normal price for a normal house;they're not going to live wiht 10 in a kind of caravan! Do you understand what I mean ! Now the EU-board can '"show'us (Dutch, Italian, Spanish, French or whatever' ), how serious they are with the 25 countries project; which to me seems "'íncontrollable'and not well overthougt. ps: I'm not a racist, but living with 2 feet on earth and I see all going wrong !

Posted by: van herk d | August 21, 2006 05:03 PM


Enrico, I left Italy 10 years ago and I regret not to have done it before. I share the same passion as you for information and books in english.

Posted by: Christian Ekipaser | August 21, 2006 04:52 PM


Today, another boat has arrived in Lampedusa with 200 people. Last time, there were 120 packed in a 10 metres boat which collided with an italian ship leaving 10 people dead, 40 missing and 70 wounded.
Every year the same. These news are not news anymore, they are just routine.
Spain and Greece shoot to boats approaching their coasts with clandestines on board. We don't. We prefer to put them in a Temporary Center. And after that ? Are they sent back to their Countries or given a job and a future ? Where and how ? How are they lured to pay 1.500 - 2.000 Euros for the "trip of the salvation" ? It's a lot of money which goes in the pockets of criminal organizations. The more you let these people in, the more these organizations make their money. If it is not possible to sort out the problem at the origin, something has to be done once they arrive. Lampedusa is in Italy but that means also Europe. Are other EU Countries taking immigrants out of this CPT (Centro Permanenza Temporanea) il Lampedusa or is Italy left alone to deal with this issue ?

Posted by: Christian Ekipaser | August 21, 2006 04:49 PM


I left Italy for good 35 years ago. The best move I've ever made. Why limit yourself to your place of birth? Especially such a small Country as Italy! Just becoming fluent in English has given me access to millions of books and reference I could'nt have dreamt of before.

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | August 21, 2006 04:45 PM


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