Tarcisio Bertone and the here and now

Tarcisio_Bertone.jpg

On 16 August I published the post ‘Idleness is Revolutionary’ with: “This madness is the love of work, the existential passion for work, driven even to the exhaustion of the vital forces of the individual and of his progeny.” Pope Benedict XVI at the Angelus on 19 August affirmed that is necessary to “be aware of the dangers of excess activity, whatever the condition and the office that one holds, because multi-tasking often leads to hardness of heart.”

On 8 August I published the post 'No Oil, no war’ in which I wrote: “Alternative energies are now obligatory. This is the true emergency.” On 29 August, Tarcisio Bertone, the Archbishop of Genoa and soon to be Secretary of State declared: “We depend almost exclusively on one single source of energy: oil. We must find alternative sources.” And “Beppe Grillo, in his small way is an example that we can follow”. In my small way I’m really getting big-headed. In this mechanism, I can’t see who is the cause and who is the effect. But some kind of royalty, 5 per thousand, the Vatican should give me. Tarcisio Bertone is a man of the Church who is engaged with the here and now as well as the after-life. Of the beauty of this world and of alternative energy. A man like that I see as a sign that things can change. The Church, even with its limits and its dogmas seem more advanced than Italian society.

The myths of work for its own sake, of infinite resources, of consumerism, of ownership, of money are (dare I say it?) evil. Certainly in the here and now. For the after-life I don’t know, but I’ll ask Tarcisio Bertone if he wants to meet up with me and some experts in alternative energy. I would like to convince him to adopt them and to start to give a good example, and making savings, in the City of the Vatican and in buildings of the Church (hospitals, care homes etc. )
I invite Italian politicians, who have named Pope John Paul II so much in connection with the pardon, to also report the words of Tarcisio Bertone.

Posted by Beppe Grillo at 05:38 PM in | Comments (55)
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Paola: at the time I dod not read Sofia's comments because I was on my way to ride.

Now that I can open and read, I can find the same pattern of reaction and rage-filled posts.

I can only add that humanly speaking, this is a sad vision.

You can read my other comment next to Sofia's.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | September 4, 2006 08:02 PM


Paola: Marcia is Sofia? really? I didn't realized it!

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | September 4, 2006 12:35 AM


Prince, I told you last week, as it was raining, you will ride this week end your Honda along the lonely plains of Ohio and Kentucky. I was sure. I hope you enjoyed it.
:-)

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | September 4, 2006 12:33 AM


On the off-topic post: I frequently run Linux open-source apps on my Mac with little or no modifications to the source code. The Apple Macintosh operating system is much more "open" than Francesco's letter implies (Linux and the Mac OS at their core are both Unix). I also find it strange to see Apple targetted in that letter when they have such a tiny PC market share in Italy (and Europe).

Posted by: Amara Graps | September 3, 2006 11:28 PM


Giovanni,the last couple of weeks, we been having 27-28 degree here,really nice wheather,the magnolia are in flower,just beautifull,about francesco e the like,let's be zen about,they have their place and pourpose in life,to test patience in people,hei what happen to blisco?we have,t hear from him in awhile,?!

Posted by: evakulnura | September 3, 2006 11:19 PM


My dear Giovanni, Marcia is Sofia...haven't you realized that??? :o)))

Posted by: paola filinese | September 3, 2006 04:40 PM


That's nothing!

Wait until Marcia Visanji will show up, then you will see the real deal.

:))

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | September 3, 2006 04:15 PM


Giovanni,would you care for and argumentative passenger...??? lol lol
Enjoy your ride!!!

Posted by: paola filinesi | September 3, 2006 03:53 PM


Guys

Whatever you say, I'm now going for a Motorcycle ride, enjoying the last good days of the season (except for Eva, which will have nice weather in a few weeks).

I will now enjoy my Herandnu

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | September 3, 2006 03:50 PM


Francesco, you are doing it again...:o)
Either I am "too old" to undersand the reason of your test or too stupid to read behind the lines...
"a blog of mostly complainers"(!!!)...is this how you see it???
In any case,don't take any notice of what I wrote I am just a "spiritosa" that likes to tease people...:o)))

Posted by: paola filinesi | September 3, 2006 12:55 PM


francesco maybe you could go back and read your comment again,and how you put down the eldery,and again thanks for the information you provided

Posted by: evakulnura | September 3, 2006 11:36 AM


Eva: I did not read the sketch were I posted my comments. You might argue that this is a funny (or silly) way of doing. Not so in my aim of placing a test about commercial-software-houses addicts at a blog of mostly complainers, before I forget about Extremadura. It is a matter worth of million or billion of Euros. More importantly, it has a tremendous bearing on the intellectual development of people. You may expect those from Extremadura to develop more skill than addicts. While I am very sorry if you were hurt, the test succeeded. As with anything that succeeded,I have discouraged myself from repeating that or similar tests.
Cheers
francesco

Posted by: Francesco Pietra | September 3, 2006 10:41 AM


OFF TOPIC a joke for Francesco I just got from a frend,it also show the australian humor:
THE ELDERLY ....gotta love em!!!!!

There were protesters on the train platform handing out pamphlets on the evils of australia.I politely declined to take one. An elderly woman was behind me getting off the scalator and a young (20ish) female protester offered her a pamphlet,which she politely declined.The joung protester put her hand on the old woman's shoulder as a gesture of friendship and in a very soft voice said,"Lady,don't you care about the children of Iraq?"
The old woman looked up at her and said,"honey, my father died in France during World War II,I lost my husband in Korea,and my son in Vietnam.All three died so you could have the right to stand here and bad mouth our country.Id you touch me again,I'll stick this unbrella up your ass and open it!"

Posted by: evakulnurae | September 3, 2006 05:00 AM


Eva, I agree with you. In societies that are not as disfunctional as western nations, the elders enjoy great respect and their opinion is much sought after. For instance, amongst native North Americans the elders are held in high regards and are part of the social fabric, but we instead segregate different generations and institutionalize seniors to get them out of the way. Generation gap is a fairly recent creation that reflects our inability to cope with the integration of different ages.

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | September 3, 2006 02:41 AM


Francesco,as much that I am thankufull for your off topic information,I find your comment about elderly,racist and disrespectuful,not been one myself I do know some,eladerly in their eighty's ,that are terrific,with a sharp mind,and intelectual capabilities,that would put me and you to shame,please before you write something like this again,remenber one day ,(if lucky enought to survive)you'll be one too,,ciao

Posted by: evakulnura | September 3, 2006 01:59 AM


Thank you, Luciano!

I hope that The Tarcis will not meet his Savonarola.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | September 3, 2006 12:05 AM


Probably like that Prince, a very good idea coming from Tarcisio, even if he'll get some punishments from above.
Very funny the mortadella and Tarcis example!!;)

Posted by: Luciano Lattanziero | September 2, 2006 11:02 PM


My opinion is that a comment like this from Tarcisio Bertone is only a plus because it shows that the concern for a cleaner world is hitting an environment where conservative ideas are mainstream.

To me it shows that The Tarcis beats the Mortadella Man 1 to 0 , in a contest where this kind of declaration was expected more from a politician.

Probably, for this thing he said, Bertone is getting some shit from his bosses.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | September 2, 2006 10:06 PM


Ya Farncesco, what you have written has really nothig to do with the article, at least I can't find any similarity to it.
When you say that the elder are not recoverable I of course understand what you mean, elder people have ideas which are hard to be change, while young people may still be absorbing a lot. But that has still nothing to do with the articles. Guys, let's try to stay tuned and not to move the essence of the discussion to other fields please.

Posted by: Lucia Bagagni | September 2, 2006 12:50 PM


Ya Farncesco, what you have written has really nothig to do with the article, at least I can't find any similarity to it.
When you say that the elder are not recoverable I of course understand what you mean, elder people have ideas which are hard to be change, while young people may still be absorbing a lot. But that has still nothing to do with the articles. Guys, let's try to stay tuned and not to move the essence of the discussion to other fields please.

Posted by: Lucia Bagagni | September 2, 2006 12:49 PM


F.Pietra, If I may ask two things:

-Could you pls tell me the relevance of your post to the article discussed here concerning energy efficiency??
- Why are "elderly not recoverable"??? (which as matter of fact I find a little offensive to the rest of the group here, since we know so little about each other...)

Posted by: paola filinesi | September 2, 2006 09:55 AM


When talking in favor of freedom and against lobbies, do not forget that, with few exceptions, you support either Microsoft or Apple, two most notable examples of lobbies.

Please, read below about a country that is teaching real progress and democracy to the world:

August 3rd, 2006
The councillor for Infrastructure and Technological Development, Luis Millán Vázquez de Miguel, announced that within one year all the computers of the Junta of Extremadura (government of the autonomous region of Extremadura, Spain) will run Free Software office tools and gnuLinEx, the local flavour of Debian GNU/Linux 3.1, as mandatory operating system. It will be gradually introduced to all administrative organisations of the Junta of Extremadura.
From now on, all workers of the public administration will also use Open Document Formats (ISO/IEC DIS 26300) for their office applications as well as PDF/A (Portable Document Format, ISO 19005-1:2005) for document exchange, when guaranteed unalterable visualisation is required.
Vázquez de Miguel explained that at the end of the period all additional software must be distributed under a free license. "This is an important initiative that the Junta of Extremadura has been working on for a long time, accumulating experience and analysing the impact on our organisation so as to guarantee its success", the councillor declared. According to Vázquez de Miguel, Free Software also improves security, autonomy and rationalises public spending.
Using Open Document Formats will guarantee the conservation of all the administrative documents for longer periods of time. It will also improve the relationship with the general public since it's not obliged to acquire proprietary software to access official documents.
__________

As far as I am aware, it is only the Bozen district in Italy that has started to freed its cultural and administrative quarters from Microsoft and Apple.

Aside the saving of money that the Italian administration and culture could achieve, do not forget that closed systems as the two mentioned above, can not do other than closing minds of the youngs (the elder are not recoverable).

Think about

Cheers

francesco pietra

Posted by: Francesco Pietra | September 2, 2006 08:32 AM


Alessandro,

"Asking a priest about energy efficiency makes little sense."

Could you please elaborate on your above statement???

Posted by: paola filinesi | September 1, 2006 11:40 PM


Priests are humans too,and if this world goes kaput,they will too,so is in everybody interest,to do something about,ciao:-)

Posted by: evakulnura | September 1, 2006 11:06 PM


I am not a church person either,but ehi if they can spread the gospel of new energy,they are welcome,any change that make people aware of the situation is welcome with me,:-)

Posted by: evakulnura | September 1, 2006 11:03 PM



Asking a priest about energy efficiency makes little sense.


Posted by: AFini | September 1, 2006 10:26 PM


Hi Antonia! Welcome on the blog!
Yes, I like people who are able to make this difference too.
Because of this I feel at my ease here!
:))))

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | September 1, 2006 09:44 PM


Sandra, you want my proposal on Energy Conservation? There are tens of thousands research papers and books written on this subject by scientists who spent their lives studying energy alternatives. Grillo's Blog is made available to toss around few ideas not deeper than Tarcisio Bertone's comments.

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | September 1, 2006 09:16 PM


Then welcome Antonia, first time on the blog!
I think a lot of people are getting very angry with this argument, because this implies accepting ideas which are coming from a political wing that nobody likes, but still intelligent ones, and they just prefer not to show up, instead of giving answers.

Posted by: Luciano Lattanziero | September 1, 2006 09:00 PM


I'm catholic, and I'm practicant. Useless to say that I find Bertone's option very interesting, but I'm totally against politics. I'm not a CDU or FI voter, because I realised of how corrupted politicians are, and that hurts me badly.
I think anyway that everybody should this important proposals twice consider, since it's something from which everybody could benefit, in terms of energy.
That's my first time on the blog, and I have to say, I'm honored by the fact that there are so many people which are able to make a difference in between political stupidity, catholic stupidity too (I'm not saying catholics are innocent) and smart ideas.

Posted by: Antonia Lapenta | September 1, 2006 08:44 PM


Ja ok Sandra, you sound a bit confused, I have to say it. Of course Anarchy is not going to take us anywhere, but we don't even want to talk about anarchy, that's not the argument. The reality is, politicians, well, we've seen how disappointing they are, both Prodi and both the Nano. This article is interesting, because it shows us other possible ways that we can incurr, in order to achieve our abjectives. Alternative sources are necessary? Yes. Then we don't care who is proposing the law, or the idea, it's anyway an intelligent remark.

Posted by: Marcello Pini | September 1, 2006 08:35 PM


Ok, Enrico, I'll try then to be less argumentative, maybe ok, my fault, sometimes I'm impulsive, but I'm still waiting for you proposal, if you are willing to give it.

Posted by: Sandra Minelli | September 1, 2006 08:30 PM


"that's of course not going to take us anywhere."
What's not going to take us anywhere is the way in which you ask your questions. Try to be less argumentative if you are interested in dialogue.

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | September 1, 2006 08:27 PM


Well, then who the hell are you trusting?? You don't trust politicians, you don't trust the church...ok, actually none of them should be trusted, so, I have to admit you're not that wrong in that. But what would you then propose??Anarchy? that's of course not going to take us anywhere.

Posted by: Sandra Minelli | September 1, 2006 08:22 PM


Ideas matter, even if the come from an unliked fount which is the church. The rest is just bullshit. I'm completely with you guys.

Posted by: Giorgia Manetta | September 1, 2006 08:17 PM


Sandra, please talk for yourself and do not put in my mouth words I didn't say about placing my trust in politicians.

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | September 1, 2006 08:14 PM


Yep Raffaella. I don't like the church either, and I don't like to have to get agreement with it, but this time is different. We want to gain an advange for us, for the world, and we want to use all of the possible mechanisms, in oder to achieve it. We all need alternative sources, and whatever the church says, we're not going to get it from our Pecoraro Scagno or Bertinotti for sure. Don't even want to mention the right party.

Posted by: Francesco Lucerna | September 1, 2006 08:12 PM


Ok, the fecondation law was a mistake, I was very disappointed of the church, and I still am a bit. But this is a good occasion to exploit possibilities, we don't want miss it, even if we're going to have to listen to those people in the Vatican, which I now that are often a pain.
But Beppe, you should listen to them, at least when they say something which has sense.

Posted by: Marco Sallusti | September 1, 2006 08:07 PM


I agree with Paola. I'm totally against the church. I'm especially against the catholic church, because I think is the cause of sexual repression, guilt and manipulation all kinds. But, as I'm against the church, I'm also against its perverse mechanisms. One of them, maybe the worst of all, is the strict division between good and bad. On one side are the good, on the other side the wicked, the good are always good, and the wicked are always wicked. That's not true.
Because of this, I believe that something good can also come from a bad institution like the church.
If they are for alterntive energy sources, I only can be happy about it!

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | September 1, 2006 08:05 PM


I think Sandra is right. I surely don't trust politicians, unluckily I have to say, I'm a left party voter, but very angry with the party. Bertinotti is the worst too.
There's no good party anymore, just money and power. What it matters now are ideas, not the simplicity of our parliament, which is going to take us nowhere.

Posted by: Lucia Bagagni | September 1, 2006 08:03 PM


@ Enrico, well, you don't accept ideas of people dressed like that and going around with limos, but you accept instead ideas from our politicians, which should be in jail and are not, and that get something like 30000euros pro Month, don't pay taxes and have palaces and boats everywhere. Mmm...are you sure? If I were you, I wouldn't be.

Posted by: Sandra Minelli | September 1, 2006 07:59 PM


I'm with you guys. I read all of the posts and I have to say, well, this time we all think in the same way for one time! It doesn't take place often but, good. If there are good ideas, lets accept them. The only one which is not with us is this George De Stefano, whatever his name is. Some people should really just shut up sometimes, instead of thinking without reasoning.

Posted by: Luciano Lattanziero | September 1, 2006 07:55 PM


It's just that ideas about conservation introduced by men dressed in splendid clothing, living in princely palaces and travelling in Mercedes Limos, are lacking credibility.

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | September 1, 2006 07:53 PM


Yep, I don't like the church either, but I like this idea. It'd be good to listen to it more often, if all of their ideas would be such as this one. I may really turn catholic this time.

Posted by: Lucia Bagagni | September 1, 2006 07:50 PM


Go Bertone!!!!!!!!!!!!!Beppe and Bertone for President!!!!!!!!!!We're all with you'all;)

Posted by: Giorgia Manetta | September 1, 2006 07:46 PM


George, don't be such a sissy and start to reason with your own head. We need eolic energy, we need solar energy and so on . This time politics doesn't matter, it's a matter of us, humans, in a world which is slowly fading in pieces. Don't you wanna admit it? The reason why we don't go ahead in our world and politics is because there are people like you, which don't care about what is right or not, they would die instead of listening to what the other party is saying, even if what it saying is right. That's the sickness of Italy, it was so in the past and it is so unluckily right now. No reason to argue with you, I don't like that, but before writing posts, next time think about it twice please.

Posted by: Marcello Pini | September 1, 2006 07:35 PM


I don't really like the church, never been catholic and never will. But this time I have to admit, I'm with Bertone and Beppe. We need alternative sources of energy, and the help of the church may be great.

Posted by: Francesco Lucerna | September 1, 2006 07:27 PM


George I mean, look at reality. What do we want?do we really want to keep fighting against the church, because of old stupid ideas, or do we want to go ahead? Maybe you just want to keep trusting our politicians, good luck then.

Posted by: Marco Sallusti | September 1, 2006 07:24 PM


When the chuch is right, and sometimes it is, let's consider its ideas and we could all gain advantages from it.

Posted by: Sandra Minelli | September 1, 2006 07:21 PM


George, I would like to add to all this Catholic mumbo jumbo the dogma of the infallibility of the Pope passed by The First Vatican Council in 1870 with the tiniest of cardinal's majority. This dogma allows this very fallible man to dispense his medieval decrees with intolerance of any criticism.

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | September 1, 2006 07:21 PM


It's totally uselesess to keep blaming the church. It's true, we all know all of the mistakes that the church has made, in the past, but, if there are improvements today, which are useful for the society, why not to accept them. It's stupid not to, and stupid are those which keep being against for some just unsignificant political idea.

Posted by: Luciano Lattanziero | September 1, 2006 07:20 PM


It's totally uselesess to keep blaming the church. It's true, we all know all of the mistakes that the church has made, in the past, but, if there are improvements today, which are useful for the society, why not to accept them. It's stupid not to, and stupid are those which keep being against for some just unsignificant political idea.

Posted by: Luciano Lattanziero | September 1, 2006 07:19 PM


Hey, hey you two...:o)
I detect some anger here??
The church might be whatever you say and, for that matter, most religious institutions are oppressive in one way or another, but we cannot just dismiss a good proposal and a good initiative just because it's coming from a source that we dislike....
Alternative energy sources are a must and we should all work together towards that objective...Always being careful not to exploit that source as we did with oil or else we'll be back where we started...

Posted by: paola filinesi | September 1, 2006 07:17 PM



Right on, George!

Posted by: AlexFini | September 1, 2006 06:34 PM


"The Church, even with its limits and its dogmas seem more advanced than Italian society."

Really, Beppe? In which ways? In opposing fecondazione and supporting a medieval law to limit use of this technology? In its endless, hysterical campaigns against gays and lesbians? In its insistence that using condoms is worse than illness and death from AIDS? In Pope Maledetto's insistence that the church is Italy's real government?

One hierarch says something reasonable about alternative energy sources and you go all soft on this reactionary institution, the bulwark of misogyny and sexual backwardness.

Posted by: George De Stefano | September 1, 2006 06:22 PM


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