Christmas Suppository

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Father Christmas has brought us the Finance Law. Instead of the reindeer he used the bicycle. Romano Christmas was immediately sorry and said he would never do it again. Then he immediately changed his mind and said he wasn’t sorry and that he would do it again. It has been a Finance law full of surprises. A mutant Finance law. A Finance law that the academics will only be able to explain to us in a few years time. When they’ve managed to understand what it was all about. Of the correlations and the amendments. Of the clarifications and the back-pedalling. Of the lobbies and the mess ups. It was an extenuating Finance law. It got us for exhaustion. Before the final voting, Romano Christmas could have asked us for anything, any tax, any rubbish. We would have said “yes” just to get it out of the way by the Christmas period.
The things in the Finance law that I have understood, I have not liked. I haven’t liked the attempt to cancel accounting crimes against the Public Administration. I haven’t liked the change to the law that eliminated contributions to the new incinerators taking them from the renewable energy sources.
The things I haven’t understood about the Finance law I’ve liked even less. I don’t understand why the conflict of interests is tolerated, why the Pecorella and ex Cirielli save-the-thieves laws have not been eliminated. Why the election law was not altered, the one that created consortiums available to BerlusconiBossiCasiniRutelliFassinoBertinotti and so on . Why the Biagi law was not eliminated. Why there was no action against the monopolists with the dearest prices in Europe and the worst services. Why the people giving the orders to intercept telephones are not in prison together with the people who carried out the work. Why the reform of the TV has not been started. Why Previti, corruptor of judges, is sitting in Parliament. Why two parliamentarians who have been convicted of crimes are sitting on the anti-mafia commission. Why this government is too much like the one of the bypassed dwarf. Why the programme of the Unione, and the pre-electoral indignation have stayed there where they were before 9 April.
Fassino the cementifier is talking about Phase 2. If that means that we need new elections after we’ve changed the election law, I agree. If however it means the development of Phase 1, then the next load of suppositories should be used internally by the Unione parliamentarians. The citizens have already done.

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Andrea,as you can see Joe hasn't kept his promise,he is still abusing people,just remand him,on this side of the blog we have the same common goal ,a better government in Italy,and a better life for the Italians,ciao

Posted by: E.kul.nura | December 31, 2006 11:04 PM


Andrea, Thanks.

Posted by: lorenzo Federico | December 31, 2006 08:49 PM


Lorenzo,

I agree with your considerations. My impression is that the situation at this point is difficult to fix.

In fact, like you, I am surprised the economy has not yet collapsed. Though I see that risk slowly increasing.

Happy new year to you too!

Posted by: Andrea Marchi | December 31, 2006 05:37 PM


Joe,

thanks for the book recommendation, I'll check it out.

The title seems to confirm my impression of changes to come.

Posted by: Andrea Marchi | December 31, 2006 05:28 PM


Hello everyone,
I totally agree with Giacomo and Andrea considerations altought I think that the problem of our country is not the citizen (people are people and doesn't matter which nationality they belong), which have not the competence nor the chance to understand a Finanziaria , but political nepotism and lack of meritocracy, an aberrant system that slowly settled himself during the past years. For instance, we have extremely powerfull trade unions that don't really protect the working class but keep hindering our economy for their own political interest, cuddled by our exremely incompetent and coward governors. I am amazed that Italy still survives in spite of this disgusting system.

I wish everyone, in Italy and abroad, an happy new year.

Things- hopefully - will get better

Posted by: lorenzo Federico | December 31, 2006 05:18 PM


MATT CHARRe', alias Mr ROSSI SNERT

prof.joe I disagree with the result of Saddam court case,eye for an eye we all turn blind,good to know you move elsewere,good luck,lucky for us!no hard feelings,have a happy new year.

Posted by: matt charre' | December 30, 2006 03:52 AM


Dear Mr Rossi SNERT,
I regret to inform you that I didn't change my mind at all about SADDAM's execution as I've always been against DEATH PENALTY.

As for as Mr Saddam's execution is concerned I think that the decision of Iraqi Government to show his death by hanging on the telly was not only cruel and regrettable but also self-deafiting because it has sparked further tension and anger among Sunni extremists who have already promised to take revenge against Usa forces and Sciite population.

So,in order to avoid making another blunder such as this one,maybe you'd better next time restrain yourself from making value judgments about people's behaviour and attitude you know nothing about,because to take sides with USA's most political stances and the free market theory as well it doesn't mean that I always agree with Mr Bush's decisions.

At the same time if wise people such as me or Mr ANDREA MARCHI side against COMMUNISM and/or the centre-left coalition led by Mr Prodi,this doesn't necessarily mean to be a fascist as you had cheekly said to us a few days ago.

Unfortunately in this poor country,made up of 15% of far wing-left EMPTY SKULLS nuts like you,Mrs ProfessoFessa BIFERALE and EVAKULNURA, bloody and ignorant communists like you didn't still understand that thanks to the INTERNET and the consequent GLOBALIZATION of the ECONOMY the world has dramatically entered into a new and irreversible process compared with the one which was in force a few years ago (so called INDUSTRIAL SOCIETY).

Nowadays we live in a different society where the TERTIARY sector has taken the place of the SECONDARY one,so it's absolutely ridiculous to go on talking about out-of-date topics such as the MARXIST IDEOLOGY and the dictatorship of the working class.

Advances in communication and transportation technology (INTERNET for instance), combined with free-market ideology, have given goods, services, and capital unprecedented mobility which have made the CONSUMERS, and not the PRODUCERS as in the INDUSTRIAL SOCIETY, the real driving force of the current economic system .

Anyway if you want to know more about it I suggest you (and Mr MARCHI as well if he wish to)reading this beautiful and enlightened Italian book that talks about this issue:

"La fine del ceto medio e la nascita della società low cost" by Gaggi Massimo, Narduzzi Edoardo

http://www.valuepartnersgroup.com/amministrazione/Schede/pdf/060317_gaggi+narduzzi.pdf


It could be an unique occasion for you to bring your narrow mind out of oblivion (and mental wanks as well)to finally see how silly you are.

Cheers and HAPPY NEW YEAR to EVERYBODY including Mr ROSSI and Ms (or Mrs ??) EVAKULNURA even though they wouldn't deserve it because of their senseless messages...

Prof John Stuart Mill

Posted by: Prof John Stuart Mill | December 31, 2006 04:26 PM


Hello and best wishes with some New Year resolutions. I have come to the conclusion Italian regardless how laud they complain, and how badly managed their Country is, are happy go lucky and even while staring at the bottom of the barrel are convince and supportive of their Political Leaders. I am honestly dumbfounded, with this Finanziaria 56 new taxes have been either created or increased, the Government currently sucks in 44.1% of GDP, the National Average income is still approx. 24000 Euros (Only Greece is lower in Europe) and by all the statistical extrapolations done by several agency each person will shell out approx. 750 Euro more for good taxes and services. All of this taxes regardless that the revenue of the Italian Tax Agency has shut up by approx. 40 Billion Euros. The Prime Minister has told in the end of the year speech, Equity and Development is his guiding light, and while as a first result Italian will pay more taxes whomever avoided paying taxes before from now will be caught and prosecuted (I would love to see this promise come through, their effectiveness is equal and directly proportional to their Credibility!). Have I missed something or am I misreading the situation of Italy, meanwhile the latest polls are showing the support for the Government and therefore the institution on the increase. All of this lead me to believe Italians get exactly what they deserved and ask for, meanwhile the gas distribution market has been cornered by Gazprom (Russia’s Gas Champion) France has blocked Enel from buying GazDeSuez while they are happy to sell us Nuclear Generated Electricity, the Italian Navy has wasted Million in refurbishing contract with a contractor made out of Navy Generals and Captains (Works actually never executed for the last 5 years), Alitalia will be sold to Italian peers and therefore nothing will change (Banks related to Politicians will finance the deal therefore obvious result no change your tax money will support the deal). In spite of the fact that not a single issue (The only one solved was to take the current deficit under the 3% European Requirement) has been solve the Prime Minister tells to the Italians, now we can go back at growing, and so after they beat them over the head with more taxes to cover their moronic expenditures, Italians now can go back to work and harder at sending their earned money to them Thank You very much. Am I misreading it or what, what am I missing in this picture, I would think either these Politicians are Egotistical Maniacs and safe from any repercussion or Italians really deserve what they get from them. I was looking in any worthwhile newspaper some reaction, I am astonished “None Anywhere”. And so while people dye in Hospitals Mr. Bertinotti gets his prostate done at a Roman Private Clinic I send everyone a Good Luck and another Year will go in history books with a check mark “I did it and dam proud of it”. Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | December 31, 2006 02:55 PM


Giacomo,

What I meant was that if Italy applied the principles you proposed, and which I fully agree with--i.e. competition, abolitionn of privileges, having competent politicians, etc.--Italy's economy would be booming and prospering.

That was the intended meaning of the joke :) Not any assumptions about anything. :)

In fact, I share the views you express in your message. I also have no plans, nor the desire, of ever going back to Italy.

Happy new year!
:)

Posted by: Andrea Marchi | December 31, 2006 12:35 PM


To Andrea Marchi
I only wish one day thinking Americans like me will line up in Libia to cross the Sicily Channel by boat, although I am not holding my breath on it. So as life goes on as it always will the hard facts will still be the reality Italy is in. Just remember it takes makes a bigger man to admit then to deny anything. Although the sad thing is not Italy’s current situation but the fact that Italians accept this status quo’ as good as it could possibly be. Lowered expectations have never solved anything; to the contrary the opposite is truth. As for me I was born in Italy although be assured I will never advise my children to make their life in Italy when they have a chance elsewhere, or at least until this Country will be run by such a bunch of incompetent and professional politicians only for the Paycheck. As for you do whatever you please but please don’t ever assume anything (American will sneak across the border to come to Italy!) to assume by definition is wrong from the get go. Happy new year everybody. Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | December 31, 2006 12:05 PM


Andrea thank you very very much,ciao

Posted by: E.kul.nura | December 31, 2006 01:45 AM


To all who kindly asked my opinion about strong words and provocations:

Joe has made a commitment to avoid that in the future.

So, I think we can all be happy now!
:)

And Joe can be sure that everyone will take his side should someone else attack him in the future.

Posted by: Andrea Marchi | December 31, 2006 01:41 AM


ON SADDAM,likewise guys

Posted by: E.kul.nura | December 30, 2006 09:22 PM


Today Bush said that Saddam death is a justice deed....Killing is always wrong. I would like to see people like Saddam working hard for the rest of their life insted. Give them one of those laborious work, such as chopping hard wood or breaking rocks in mines. Civil society must teach them to be humble...
Saddam death doesn't make me feel better.

Posted by: lorenzo Federico | December 30, 2006 04:01 PM


Andrea,
Since Saddam is dead what ever we say now is a bit late..... but I do agree with you that there was no point in killing him!

I think punishment whould have been more severe if he would have been kept in solitary confinment for the rest of his life,minimum facilities.

Not all scape goats should be killed....there are other ways to deal with them....

Posted by: paola filinesi | December 30, 2006 01:27 PM


ON SADDAM

I do not see the point of killing him.

Posted by: Andrea Marchi | December 30, 2006 12:42 PM


prof.joe I disagree with the result of Saddam court case,eye for an eye we all turn blind,good to know you move elsewere,good luck,lucky for us!no hard feelings,have a happy new year.

Posted by: matt charre' | December 30, 2006 03:52 AM


Just curious...!!

What do you all think about Saddam Hussein's execution???

Posted by: paola filinesi | December 30, 2006 01:21 AM


IT'S a SHAME!!

Happy new Year even though you hate me, don't you??

Prof John Stuart Mill

Posted by: Prof John Stuart Mill | December 30, 2006 01:32 AM


OT OT

Just curious...!!

What do you all think about Saddam Hussein's execution???

Posted by: paola filinesi | December 30, 2006 01:21 AM


This was said for the state of the Greek economy but I believe that it could be very well applied to the Italian economy as well;
Other counties' economies are based on foundation made following basic structural financial "laws".
If one of the foundation pillars shakes the building is at risk....

Italy's economy will never collapse because the foundation structure is so intertwined based on legal and illegal money that pillars are non existent....very much like a yarn of wool!!!

Posted by: paola filinesi | December 30, 2006 01:11 AM


Hey Jefferson,

Usi il mio nick e nemmeno mi saluti!? :)

Se non sei soddisfatto dei miei nick, posso aiutarti a trovarne uno tutto tuo!! :D

Ciao

Posted by: Andrea Marchi | December 29, 2006 11:54 PM


Ciao Joe,

Una proposta: prova a sospendere la discussione con Stirner, Bellandi, Rossi & Co. e vedi se continuano a tagliarti.

Io penso che probabilmente decadrà anche il motivo di cui tu, giustamente, ti lamenti.

Ovviamente, nessuno si aspetta che, di conseguenza, tu condivida quello che scrivono e anzi potrai rispondergli in merito. Se ti tratteranno male comunque, prenderemo tutti le tue difese.

Let's make this our new year's resolution: let's discuss in a polite and civilized manner--just as we wish our politicians could do!

;)

Posted by: Andrea Marchi | December 29, 2006 11:38 PM


......e sei cosi'presuntuoso che pensi che la signorina Bellandi o Max sono dietro questi commenti,hai rotto tanto le balle a tutti che ti sei fatto piu' di un nemico,una curiosita'se sei tu nelle foto,cosa ti dai sui capelli,olio di ricino o olio di foca?e' uno stile un po' passe',siamo nel 2006 non lo sai?!

Posted by: Jefferson D'Arcy the real one | December 29, 2006 11:29 PM


Giacomo,

If enough people thought like you, Americans would be sneaking across the border to look for a job in Italy! ;)

Unfortunately, instead, your comparison with Argentina is ominously accurate. Argentina had low productivity, a high public debt and a very strong currency (because it was pegged to the US dollar). Something had to give. And it did.

Italy is now in a similar situation... and it does not look like it is getting better. Interest rates hikes and increasing competition from emerging markets are just some of the main problems.

Of course, I hope I'm wrong. But I sure am pessimistic.

Regards

Posted by: Andrea Marchi | December 29, 2006 11:29 PM


Giovanni hai mai pensato che se il blog sta andando giu'e' perche ci sei tu?ti e' stato data l'occasione di commentare su argomenti che dovrebbero essere la tua specialita',per adesso non si e' sentito niente dal luminare professore,e cocco veramente ti stanno venendo le manie di persecuzione,fatti vedere mi preoccupi

Posted by: Jefferson D'Arcy | December 29, 2006 11:22 PM


This is exactly the point. It is hard to accept any change because of the privileges acquired in the past. A great politician is able to take also unpopular but right choices to improve the country. This could be done if we get rid of our perverse political system, with an electoral law that allow many incompetent to flood our parliament. I say that a good politician whorty of our respect is the one that talk about well defined programs, specific strategy to solve specific issues. I don't want to hear people talking about "Wide breath" programs, I don't want to see people running for elections toghether with strange individuals that have nothing to do with our wonderful country and all they care about is their interests and parties. Unfortunately the truth is that the characters rouling our country are just poor people- some of them considering themselves lucky to get a well paid and stable job (thing that our youth cannot even hope anymore) and some nice appearance on TV, while others really believing to be the saviors sent in Italy directly by God himself.
We need competent and courageous people. I wish we could really do something for that.

Posted by: lorenzo Federico | December 29, 2006 05:28 PM


Hello there, especially Mr. Marchi, I recognize that the system and the people working within the system are much intertwined and therefore to benefit the Country as a whole someone has to loose privileges and financial rewards. Having sat that, we are in the 21st Century, Italy is I am not sure why in the G8 (Although by mere numbers we shouldn’t be there) and more or less we are on the Industrialized Country band wagon. Now just imagine the perpetuation of the actual Italian System (Basically constructed and supported by the Government, pick any Agency!) and extrapolate the results 20 years from now, what do you get? I venture out to guess financial ruins on the scale ten times Argentina. I suppose you would like proof of this scenario, just analyze any Ministry and associated Financial Results; Transportation: Alitalia Bankrupt (For Sale), Rail (Financially Bankrupt, the Government has to balance the books with taxes) Anas Motorways (3.2 Billions unaccounted for, plus 6 billions short of approved projects).
Ministry of Education; I spare you the list of University financially in red and staffed with the highest incompetence ever seen in the Western Hemisphere (Not by chance Mr. Draghi requested a Meritocratic System to be implemented ASAP). The only University ranked worthy of any mentioned is The Bocconi (Although private and therefore accessible to the few). Social Security Ministry; Well on this subject I see how it works right now and with the latest tweaks with the TFR of people doesn’t appear to be improving very much although the Government will work on it next year so we’ll see so far is not sustainable as everyone knows it. Work and Industry; Although they are two separate ministry I assume you are aware of Italian Salary (Compare them to the European Market and then tell me, I have been there and I am Cognizant of them) while for competitiveness of Italian Industry I am sorry to say we do not have a chance in hell to compete with Chinese Indians Korean Japanese American and the Whole Europe from the Education stand point, quality stand point and finally the cost stand point. Now I could go on and on although worthless, but about your point that someone will in the end suffer some consequences, well the choice is either we do it or someone somewhere else will do it for us. We choose not to become efficient and compete, well Fiat is going in Poland, China, India and South America, we choose not to compete Rumanians very soon will be building your house for 1/10 of an Italian Contractor, same for freeway you drive on Mr. Benetton tried to sell Autostrade to Spain etc. etc. My point is that the Government is by definition inefficient and if on top of it we have corruption and incompetence this system is doomed to failure sooner that you can even conceive. Every western Country has deregulated their market since 1980 with few exceptions in France, and while we were at the window watching the world go by and feeding our institutions and politicians our Government sucks in 50% of GDP plus 20 IVA on anything you do. How can a Country thrive when 60% of the work force is on Government payroll, and that means not productive actually costing money to the Country? Now You tell me how long is this system sustainable? Thanks for your time

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | December 29, 2006 04:42 PM


Giacomo,

I agree with your message about Italian banks fleecing the public and your criticism of Italian politicians, who do not bring about the changes that could make things better.

One doubt, though, arises: Are you sure that changes would be supported by the citizens?

In Italy, inefficiencies are tightly intertwined with privileges. (Examples range from politicians to lawyers, from doctors to public employees...) Changes would bring about improvements in efficiency and solve some (or all) of the problems you mention.

But they would also, inevitably, threaten privileges. When a large part of the population benefits from the system, my question is: Is change still possible?

In a democratic system, numbers count. When the common interest goes against the particular interests of a large enough part of the population, I think it becomes very difficult to gain the political strength to bring about change.

While I have no desire to defend the politicians, I think the situation goes beyond them.

My expectation is that the situation there will just keep getting worse in the foreseeable future.

Posted by: Andrea Marchi | December 29, 2006 03:24 PM


Hello everyone and for the nuisances created by few just to get under everybody’s skin, just act like a grown up person and don’t let them see you sweat because that is the only thing they are looking for. They are not stating an opinion or talking about an issue they are only searching for the right button to push in order to get a reaction. Ego is a hard thing to manage, and the only thing I am aware that tames an Ego is to ignore him/her. They can very probably handle many things (Usually bases on their IQ’s) although powerless about being ignored and not recognized. So just shine him/her and since their input doesn’t add any value that makes it irrelevant. Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | December 29, 2006 02:01 PM


Hello everyone and one more time pro-activity has to be the answer, as an example of the incompetence and collusion of our politicians I looked into House Financing. The Prime Interest from the ECB is at 3.50% (This is what the Banks have to pay for the money they use to do business) while Joe Blow when buys a house get financed at 7% (Average for 20 Years Mortgage loan) resulting on a spread of 3.5% interest for the Bank. I compared this numbers to the rates of the US (Since everyone compare itself to the greatest democracy in the world, here it is). Prime in the US is at 5%, while Mortgage Loans on the average are 5.68-5.75%, and therefore the spread is approx. 0.75%. This fact leads me to think either our Politicians are cognizant of this and go hand in hand with ABI (The Banks Lobby) or we are stupid in not asking the Politicians to stop jerking us around. In the US companies like Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are the biggest Financial Mortgages House backed and financed by the Government so the Joe Blow’s don’t get taken for a huge ride when they buy their houses. This is the Italian reality, we live in a Country where everybody knows the reality of a corrupt system and no one is complaining about it. The inefficiencies, incompetence and connection are well established, well rewarded for the few and the known, while for the rest this is the reality and the Politicians expects you to cheer them in the end of the year speech. I got my daughter a driver license for $309, while here in the Bel Paese it cost above 1000 Euros (4.2 times). The reality is that Public Transportation is a mess to put it mildly, Freeway are costly (Should be free because paid and made with public money) we have the worst road system in the whole Europe while we pay the highest Circulation Tax (Timely changes to Property Tax only in Italy). This and infinite other example of bureaucratic incompetence, corrupt and inefficient system, although the worst part is that the people has grown accustomed to these abuses and clienteles system, is constantly ignore and inaction from Government Agencies is the norm. Get any Government Agency out of any business not pertinent to them, they are the problem not the solution and if no response is the norm do it yourself. Pro-activity has to be the response, get your money to speak for you. Get your money out of the Banks pull it together and start something economically sound, no strings attached with the Government and sell it for a reasonable profit. This is the real answer to this idiots that believe Government makes a Country, while the truth is the People in it makes it or breaks while they are only a drag to the pursue of freedom and happiness. Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | December 29, 2006 01:46 PM


To Andrea Marchi,come hai visto il prof.Joe non ha preso il ramo d'ulivo che gentilmente gli e' stato offerto,ora tu mettiti nei nostri panni,siamo qui tranquilli a farci gli affari nostri,lui arriva,non fa' nessun commento che sia utile,l'unica cosa che fa'e' dare fastidio al prossimo e si proclama por la liberta',forse mi sbaglio , ha me sembra un presuntuoso pieno di se,se e' per la vera liberta'(come dice lui),rispetterebbe la nostra e democraticamente potrebbe inserirsi nei commenti,non e' necessario approvare tutto quello che scriviamo,ma per far sentire la sua voce non e' necessario rompere i coglioni a tutti,sta diventado un caso patologico,psicosi da rifiuto d'accettare il fatto che altre persone la pensano in modo differente,e poi il 100% uomo,ma che cazzata e' questa,hai mai sentito uno che prende figa che si vanta?per quanto ne so quelli che non ne prendono mai vanno in giro a raccontare quanto sono bravi sessualmennte,e' ora di crescere e di svegliarsi,visto che voi due andate un po' piu' d'accordo e mi sembri una persona a posto(anche se non capisco perche' sei suo amico,ma questa e' una mia mancanza)per favore ce lo togli di torno,ridirigilo sul blog di cicciolina o pannella visto che sono tanto amici,grazie per il piacere che mi fai.

Posted by: Jefferson D'Arcy the real one | December 29, 2006 04:28 AM

_____________________________________


Ciao,

Il tuo messaggio è condivisibile. Però, scusa la battuta, ma è un ironico che ti lamenti proprio tu--che cloni ed usi i nomi degli altri! hahaha :D

Comunque, visto che usi i miei nick, ne approfitto per salutarti. Sono onorato della scelta :D

Sul tema del Prof.: penso che potrebbe essere un po' più soft nei suoi commenti :)

Ma mi pare che si diverta a vedere le reazioni di chi viene preso di mira. Ho letto comunque anche opinioni interessanti espresse da lui.

Io proporrei di rispondere sul contenuto e non continuare ad alimentare questi battibecchi.

A dopo

Posted by: Andrea Marchi | December 29, 2006 01:31 PM


Edoardo, thanks..

Italy is beautiful and is loved and appreciated abroad. Please let's try to give respect and consideraton to all issues italians are facing. These are all important things that are going to impact ours and our children life. I don't want to surrender to the poorness of our politicians.

We'll keep in touch tomorrow

Goo dnight

Posted by: lorenzo Federico | December 29, 2006 05:31 AM


Hi Edoardo, thanks a lot for the advise but I think that if this is true we should also be able to recognize and ignore any useless or provocative comment regardless of who posted it.

Thanks

Posted by: lorenzo Federico | December 29, 2006 04:57 AM


We should all try to do not pay attention on "out of topic" posts.

If Prof Mill can give some contribution then he is most welcome.

Today I read this on the web:

ROMA (Reuters) - Per recuperare i consensi perduti che i sondaggi attribuiscono alle misure della Finanziaria, il presidente del Consiglio Romano Prodi ha promesso oggi "una svolta" dell'Italia nel 2007 per la crescita e la giustizia sociale.

"La Finanziaria non esaurisce la politica del governo . I problemi strutturali sono in gran parte da affrontare. Dobbiamo avere l'ambizione di trascinare l'economia europea, non più di essere trainati. Il 2007 è l'anno di questa svolta. Ci dedicheremo ad alcuni programmi di grande respiro", ha detto Prodi a sette mesi dall'ingresso a palazzo Chigi.

Le misure annunciate durante la consueta conferenza stampa di fine anno puntano "all'equità sociale" e vanno dalla possibilità di aprire un'impresa in un giorno a un patto per la difesa del potere di acquisto dei consumatori con l'abbattimento delle barriere corporative, a una maggiore attenzione alla politica ambientale e di risparmio energetico, a progetti per attivare gli investimenti esteri, all'allargamento della banda larga."""


He promises "UNA SVOLTA DELL'ITALIA"!!!!!!... "UN NUOVO MIRACOLO ITALIANO"!!!!!! WOW
...SILVIO=ROMANO!! At least Berlusconi was original and make me really believe once...

Social justice, development, Programs of "Wide Breath". What the hell does it mean!!!! .....Wide Breath........MY GOD!!

None of our politicians has the gut to do the right thing.
This is disgusting. We don't have to allow this people to underestimate us like that.


GRILLO PLEASE DO SOMETHING!!

Giacomo, say something !

"WIDE BREATH"....

Posted by: lorenzo Federico | December 29, 2006 04:17 AM


As for Mr Grillo whether he knows what it happening here or not I am pretty sure, as you said, he doesn't.
The blog, especially the italian room, functions like a ballot when important, and only then, issues are discussed. The way Citizens Primaries was presented to Mr.Prodi.
The english room exists only to give it a "look" a of sort of an "international" thing...
You cannot be mentioned in the Times magazine and have no english page, can you??
So that's why I think that to mess up with the english writing bloggers was useless and naive. This is a nice place where nice people can exchange ideas in a civilized manner, no need for abuses.


Could I be wrong??? Of course I could Mr. (or Mrs.) Prof.John S. Mill (you could be a woman as much I could be a man, who knows???!!)

Posted by: anka | December 29, 2006 03:10 AM


Joe,sei andato a fare la spesa con la mamma?hai imparato quanto gli costi,e' ora che ti trovi un lavoro e la smetti di farti mantenere,hops ecco perche' non prendi figa,non ti vuole mantenere nessuna,e quindi niente patatina,povero cocco,l'unica che lo capisce e' solo Federica la mano amica,che si e' stancata pure lei dai crampi!ah ah ah ah

Posted by: Andrea Marchi | December 29, 2006 03:07 AM


You might be right and you might be wrong.

Mr. Chiametti always posts messages like a monologue, mostly irrelevant to the subject, never answers questions, sentences are too long, hardly any full stops or commas. Always posting data and impersonal comments. Like a written graduation paper.

Italian syntax, not by an on line translator, this is not what I meant, but by a nice software program.

Could I be wrong??? Of course I could Mr. (or Mrs.) Prof.John S. Mill (you could be a woman as much I could be a man, who knows???!!)

Posted by: anka | December 29, 2006 02:50 AM


I told you my "friend" (nice isn't it how things change???) not to be so credulous,didn't I???

I don't really know why,maybe you are too good looking and they envy you (THIS IS A JOKE believe me).

To be honest,I have had an idea for a long time now about Mr. Chiametti but I think it is better to keep it to myself for the time being.You never know what autometed translators can do to you!!!

Posted by: anka | December 29, 2006 01:44 AM


Andrea,everybody,in this side of the blog is very happy to have a democratic exchange of opinions or idea,it get harder when you got the professor come in and disrupt and put everybody down,(like is doing now calling everybody commie),we have put up with his nonsense for awhile,I haven't heard any real comment on any issue from him,more then happy to give him the olive branch,but he have to make an effort too,to get along with everybody else.ciao

Posted by: evakulnura | December 29, 2006 12:48 AM


PS for Joe:

Buddy, if you have any pictures with your clothes on, you may wanna post a couple of those as well. Then stop. :P

While a picture may be worth a thousand words, as they say... we'd rather read you!
haha!!

:D

Posted by: Andrea Marchi | December 29, 2006 12:23 AM


To "Dave Mattheews"

Dave Matthews used to be my nick. I gave up on it, so I do not really care if you want to use it.

However, I would like to renew Anka's proposal:

Let's make a fresh new start of it and try to make the blog a place of constructive thought and mutual respect.

If Prof. Mill is being nice to Giacomo, it's a sign our proposal is working. Let's not ruin it all by attacking him even when he is being nice, ok? :)

Posted by: Andrea Marchi | December 29, 2006 12:11 AM


I am presently abroad but I wish to come back one day and work in my own country.

It is hard to brace myself and wait. Our system is unacceptable.

We need meritocracy and the good part of our country must reveal itself.


Posted by: Lorenzo Federico | December 28, 2006 11:44 PM


Lorenzo I agree with you, time,I do not know how many people read and follow this blog,what I think is important is keep it going for the sake of good information,because you guys are not getting any,as Giacomo as said and if you watch the news,is just mambo jambo,there aren't say anything really,it is messy,no watchdog to keep everybody in line in Parliament,I do not know if you live in Italy or not,but if you do good luck,brace yourself until better times comes

Posted by: evakulnura | December 28, 2006 10:48 PM


Hi,

I already am churning over a lot of bitter food in my mind.
We ALL need to wake up and realize how crazy our political system is.

One thing we can do is improve this blog with clever comments and suggestions (as you've already done) so that many other people can join us.
It may seem to be a little thing but our opinion matters!

Let's let those people know that we can think and that there are many many people sick of their promises and dull speeches. They have to understand that WE DON'T NEED THEM!


Let's create a great blog that can grow day by day. Let's create a strong network made of people that share our opinon and make our politicians realize that it is time to stop thinking about us as a whole bunch of voters without brains.
Italy needs people like you to express their opinion more often!

Thanks

Posted by: lorenzo Federico | December 28, 2006 10:16 PM


Hello there, just food for your thoughts, since when a Government is not able to track down the writer of a piece of legislation just approved by both Cambers? Only in Italy! Since when Politics is about the creation or destruction of a Party, since when Politics is about who gets together with whom and have a bigger slice of the pie? Since when, the political carrier of a politicians is relevant to the voters? Why newspapers write so many articles about political figure and so little about the legislative agenda or laws to be considered or implemented? My point is why we are so obsessed with the players rather than the game. Someone is skirting the issue, and the issue is this country needs laws to prevent the abuses from within the system rather than taking out on the common folks that goes to work each and every day and pays too many taxes already. I read and see way too many parties, groups, currents, ministers, oppositions etc. meeting on a daily basis to discuss, plan, set goals, policy etc. only to be discarded the next day. Politics is about choices, laws, rules (To be uphold by everyone and for everyone) and the certainty that if any of these laws and rules are broken the penalty is certain and swift. Only when the Government Agency will function properly this Country may have a chance, until then I have no respect for any of the so called political establishment. Tell us what platforms of laws will be implemented and enforced to anyone, and all the rest is irrelevant like all the Politicians nowadays. All the political speeches are full of adjectives, pronouns and patriotic words; although very short in facts and promises they will be held accountable for. Give it a rest, all primadonna’s during the elections, then when there is a responsibility for something they all disappear, and the wrong law is approved? Only in Italy. Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | December 28, 2006 06:44 PM


Hello there, while being productive and possibly helpful to society in general is regarded and rewarded in a proportional manner to the amount of money anyone makes, being stupid ignorant offensive and disruptive circumventing the system is considered a batch of honor only in Italy to be warn proudly. Only in this Country corruption and client system has reached the pinnacle of perfection, and rather than fight it, is much easier to swim with the current with the hope of beating everyone else. We are the master of our own demise, and the people leading this Country are only doing what each and every one of us is doing just on a bigger scale. Stop complaining, and making fun of other people’s consideration, if you are not part of the solution you must be part of the problem. Thanks


Hi Giacomo,

I like your reasoning and TOTALLY agree.

However, what solution do you suggest ??


Thanks

Posted by: Lorenzo Federico | December 28, 2006 05:42 PM


Hello there, while being productive and possibly helpful to society in general is regarded and rewarded in a proportional manner to the amount of money anyone makes, being stupid ignorant offensive and disruptive circumventing the system is considered a batch of honor only in Italy to be warn proudly. Only in this Country corruption and client system has reached the pinnacle of perfection, and rather than fight it, is much easier to swim with the current with the hope of beating everyone else. We are the master of our own demise, and the people leading this Country are only doing what each and every one of us is doing just on a bigger scale. Stop complaining, and making fun of other people’s consideration, if you are not part of the solution you must be part of the problem. Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | December 28, 2006 03:22 PM


O.T.

Prof. Gio vestri, alias Mill alias...ecc...ecc..has asked me to publish his photos as you can read in the edited letter.

He asked me to invite you all to see him on my blog too.

Click here
|
|
V

Posted by: manuela bellandi | December 28, 2006 02:47 PM


Hello there, and although is never simple to manage a Country, especially one like Italy so disparate unequal and based on old hierarchical rules. Throughout history Country have been ruled either with Religion or Laws legislated specifically for the purpose of managing people behavior. Evolution of thinking and therefore behavior of populations has changed radically throughout time thanks to, knowledge, education and therefore evolving with the spread of the inculcated know-how. The key noun word is “Education” and in this Country either intentionally or by chance Education or lack of it, has determined what we are today. The proof is in the pudding; look at who is representing us in the highest level of Government, they can hardly put together a orthographically correct Italian sentence, and although ignorant on how to run a Country they are very able and cognizant on how to get there and stay there. I don’t claim to be either rightly or lefty although I recognize a piece of legislation either correct or incorrect and to realize this just look around you. The fact of the matter is that to float to the top appeasing everyone that counts has led this Country down the slippery slope we are on today and the first rule of governing is not to let the people think but instead our dearly voted Representatives make the thinking for us. First rule of evolution is learn from prior mistakes and applied next time. It is not by mistake that Italy is the less educated Country in Europe, it is not by chance that on the average we have to go to school for 8 years only while in the rest of Europe and in the industrialized World the average is 13 years (Minimum Requirement), it is not by chance that the most Recognized University in the World are not in Italy, it is not by chance that the most used language in the World is not Latin (Roman ruled the world for goodness sake and here we are today). Self empowerment, Education, Evolution, Emancipation, and Pro-activity are the result of Know-how and therefore until Italians will be satisfy with the level of Education our Government will dispense to us, our destiny is written already. The small club of VIPs in this Country is made out of people that had the possibility (Financial, obviously) to get educated outside Italy, and therefore evolving his/her own species (Like the Golden Rule, who has the gold makes the rule!). The need to break this vicious circle is not more clearly displayed that right now, we have a Political establishment bumping the 70 years barrier; a barrage of Parties scurrying around trying to aggregate themselves because there is no more Party Doctrine, the world has evolved into a giant flow of information and know-how, while Italy has still 8 year minimum requirement on education. It is no wonder that educated people go elsewhere, it is no wonder people expectations are sinking at an incredible rate; the question should be “How low will we have to lower our expectations before we will appreciate our Political Leaders?”. Think why Mr. Berlusconi would consider creating his own University, why Mr. Mastella sends his kids to an American University, why anyone that can send his/her own kids overseas to get an education. You do the math; the writing has been and still is on the wall, is time to demand more and if it is not given to you or implemented, pro-activity is the only answer. If you don’t get what you want and need, do it yourself, no-one will give the gun and the bullets at the same time so you can shoot them and take their place, and this is the natural law of perpetuation of the species.
Having sat all the above I like Italy and I still consider this Country a worthwhile place to live in, although the Mismanagement (Politicians from all sides) is blatant and clear to anyone. These politicians are as Professional as the size of their paychecks and incompetence. A clean slate is necessary while the next batch should be made accountable for their actions or inactions. Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | December 28, 2006 02:01 PM


Anka,

Your proposal sounds good!

Enrico Rossi and Prof. Mill will start behaving now. Me too. And so will everyone else.

(Fingers crossed)
:)


PS
Joe, thanks, let think of a way to communicate.

Posted by: Andrea Marchi | December 28, 2006 12:33 PM


Mr.Marchi,
Point well taken!
I agree with most of your reasoning with an exception on two cases.

-You know very well that the english side of the blog had nothing to do with the way the italian side functions, until the eledged Prof. appeared with his nasty comments and abusive language.

-Labeling people and judging them only by reading a few comments on any blog is at least naive!!

Communists or not, fascists or not,Centre,Left,Right or whatever all have the right to express their ideas and vote for whom ever they wish to; absolutely NO ONE has the right to discriminate the other for his beliefs!

And one more point, we all know which are the exact words to inflate a conversation...so who ever uses them he/she does it on purpose,this is something I strongly believe especially on a blog where direct communication is impossible,and I have seen it done on numerous occasions!!!

I do propose a new start,since New Years Eve is approaching,and I am sure as you said :

"all would stay and share opinions, respectfully of others--all others."

Posted by: knevoza anka | December 28, 2006 11:48 AM


Hi Guys,


What do you think about the fake politicians that roule our beautiful country?

Don't you guys see that they are all the same?

They make us believe that they really want to improve our country.... All they really care about is their own bloody jobs. I feel sick everytime I hear them talking about environment, technology or research.

There are no more parties, there are no more great politicians. Don't you guys see??
..... Why we don' try to look beyond??
Comunists, Berlusconi, Prodi, i Verdi..... Let's think what is best for us. They survive in Italy because there are still many people that believe they are different from each other... They are all the same!! FAKE POLITICIANS, FAKE PARTIES..

Grillo is right when he call them DIPENDENTI of the italians people. I don't want them.
I wish we could kick them off our country. I don't want them to decide for my children future.

Lorenzo

Posted by: Lorenzo Federico | December 28, 2006 03:58 AM


Anka,

Thanks for your answer.

To answer your first question: if the extremists are going to tear me apart--I probably (read: SURELY) will not go bug them. My life ain't so bad... haha!

But I might well talk to them if I can learn the reasons for which they hold opinions so different from mine.

So, coming to the blog, the point is: do you wish to make the blog a hangout for thugs, who cannot argue their reasons in a civilized manner, or a place to exchange views?

I believe the second option is not only more pleasant, but also more useful.

An exchange of views is not a war, in which one should try to prevail. It's an opportunity to see another point of view and, often, even to learn. Maybe, even change opinion--if someone else's argument is more convincing. I don't see why you or anyone here should worry about talking to people with a different opinion.

This also brings me to the second point you make, about censorship. In general, I am not in favor of censorship. BUT I agree with you that insulting messages are detrimental to the functioning of the blog. Insulting messages are not only those with bad words. Ridicule and sarcasm can achieve the same results.

Ideally, the moderator should get bored. In practice, if there are no interventions, I think the likely results are: either some people get alienated and leave (which filters out non-mainstream opinions) or a less-than-polite "debate" will ensue. Which is pretty much what happens here time and again.

Regulating the conversation and enforcing politeness would probably produce better results: all would stay and share opinions, respectfully of others--all others.

Finally, you ask me about Joe's messages. Well, according to my proposition above, he would have to tone down his messages a bit :P

But, despite his sometimes rough ways, he can give a good contribution to the blog because he is competent in economics--a subject on which many misconceptions thrive.

Or maybe you can even convert him. With a good argument, chances are someone here may turn Joe into a full-fledged communist! :)

(Though the argument ought to be real damn good!)
:D

Posted by: Andrea Marchi | December 28, 2006 03:07 AM


By the way Mr. Marchi
Have a look at your friend's answer on the Aldo Moro subject and tell me what you see.


Posted by: knevoza anka | December 27, 2006 11:48 PM


Two questions for you Mr.Marchi,
(as you sound more interesting and more civilized)

1) You see a parade of right-wing demonstrators shouting and expressing their views about freedom of speech,etc.
Supposedly you are a leftist, would you mingle with them and why???

2)Beppe Grillo's beliefs are known, so obviously who ever participates in his blog share more or less the same ideas when political issues are concerned. If you had a similar blog and you were a well known person with liberal/right/fascist or whatever beliefs you had, wouldn’t you expect most of your blog members to share your ideas??
Now if the contradicting persons came rushing in with obsenities, profanities and the lot wouldn't you sensor their messages???

ps."Why don't you (or whoever the moderator is) set a rule and apply equally for all? No insults, no derision--from anyone.
Posted by: Andrea Marchi | December 27, 2006 09:27 PM "

Because you should restrain your friend first:

"Hi babe,
even though I'm not Mr Marchi I try to answer your foolish and naive questions.

With love and sympathy for your huge ingenousness
Prof John Stuart Mill

Posted by: Prof John Stuart Mill | December 27, 2006 09:49 PM "

Posted by: knevoza anka | December 27, 2006 11:26 PM


knevoza anka | December 27, 2006 08:09 PM
___________________________________________

Posted by: knezova anka | December 27, 2006 04:39 PM
___________________________________________


Anka,

You also spelled your own name wrong... :P

Don't get upset now, I'm just pointing it out for fun! :) It's just a joke and not an insult!! :)

Apart from this, your point about respect is right. But it has to be mutual. Shall we start?

Your question: why are we here?

My answer is that it would be interesting to read opinions different from mine and conduct a civilized exchange of views.

This, however, often proves impossible. From my point of view, people who, like Joe and I, have different opinions are usually greeted with unnecessary sarcasm (when lucky) and insults (usually).

These attitudes, whether they come from one side or the other, make a civilized conversazion impossible. As I have seen, insults from some are cheered. Different opinions from others are greeted with insults. Why don't you (or whoever the moderator is) set a rule and apply equally for all? No insults, no derision--from anyone.

Wouldn't everyone benefit from this?


Posted by: Andrea Marchi | December 27, 2006 09:27 PM


I will disregard the nasty implications and repeat my question
Since this blog, according to most of you, is a leftist, communist, sensored blog why are you here??
What are you trying to prove and why is it so important???

ps. No one had the decency to spell my name right all you cared about was if I were a clone or not...is this an example of cleverness??? You tell me Mr. Marchi!!

Posted by: knevoza anka | December 27, 2006 08:09 PM


Anka Knezova,

Croatian then. Ah, that explains why neither your English nor your Italian was perfect.

But you write in English with the British spelling.

Maybe, if you didn't try so hard to be nasty, it would even be interesting talking to you.

Posted by: Andrea Marchi | December 27, 2006 04:51 PM


Ah, knezanka,

now it's clear: you are both the clone and the cutter.

hahaha!!

Well, congratulations. It's a pretty clever trick. But what's the purpose?

Posted by: Andrea Marchi | December 27, 2006 04:47 PM


knezanka:

One guy has been posting under our nicknames.
Then most messages have been cut.
Oddly, only the cloner's messages have remained.

The only way you can figure out for sure which messages are posted by the clone, is IF YOU ARE THE CLONE.

So, there are two possible cases:

1. You do not know what you're talking about.
2. You are the clone.

You tell us we are stupid. But in neither case do you come out as any better.

Posted by: Andrea Marchi | December 27, 2006 04:44 PM


Why are you all soooo stupid????
I really mean sooooo cretini???

You say it's a censored blog,it's a communist blog it's a moron's blog especially the english room...!!!

Have you realized you are the only present here at the moment??? It has become your own chat room so you all share the same qualifications!!!

HOW NICE!!!! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!

Posted by: knezova anka | December 27, 2006 04:39 PM


In your dreams !

Posted by: Dave Mattheews Originale too | December 27, 2006 02:35 AM


edoardo a poet in our mist,how lucky we are!did you got this from Mussolini memories?

Posted by: Dave Mattheews | December 27, 2006 02:30 AM


Joe you depress me,how can you be the nano boyfriend? are you a drag queen as welldo you and the nano cross dress together? does he like to wear stiletto heals?

Posted by: Jefferson D'Arcy | December 27, 2006 02:27 AM


If the worst Italians go into politics, ER, you should PRESIDENT.

Posted by: Enrico Neri | December 27, 2006 12:51 AM


These politicians are all the same: the very worst Italians choose to be politicians. The only salvation is emigration.

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | December 27, 2006 12:47 AM


Promises Promises!
Once they reach the highest seat they even forget their parents' name.

.....and off they go with their bycicle.......

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | December 26, 2006 11:46 PM


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