The posthumous discount

tototruffa.jpg

Italy is a nation founded on the Public Debt. It has solid debt foundations. A secure alibi for the Finance Law. An alibi for new taxes, for the increase of existing taxes.
The Finance Law preserves the public debt. With an imposing public debt reforms are not possible. And everything stays as it is to the happiness of our employees. No government has intervened on public expenditure. Not even Prodi and the Padoa-Schioppa.
If costs go up, taxes go up and the debt holds. The debt is by now a condition of the spirit. It is in the air. To get into debt is a life style. The one who is in credit is a failure.
You need to show off your debts to be somebody. The bigger your personal debt, the greater are your opportunities. You can even become the President of the Council or the director of Telecom. The words… “access to credit” are reassuring . Access to debts sounds worrying. Let us become people in credit not in debt. Banks, finance people, big retailers are all in the front line for the creation of poverty. Through credit.
If I had said to my father that I was taking out a loan with TAEG 20% to go to the Antilles he would have given me a kick up the backside. And then he would have denounced the bank.
The banks always think of our dreams. They want to see them coming to fruition together with the bank interests. At Christmas you are offered the discount if you pay later. A mystery.
If you pay after 6 months you are entitled to the discount with no interest. Not if you pay straight away. A lovely LCD colour TV costs about 1200 Euro. If you pay cash after 6 months it costs you 20% less.
A bargain. But if after 6 months you forget, and the invoice doesn’t arrive or you don’t have the cash what happens? With TAN {annual rate of interest} 17.48%, TAEG {overall rate of interest}18.45% (but they could be higher) for 1000 Euro they arrange 24 monthly payments of 53.40.
The result is 1281.60. The great retailers gain from the debts of their clients. Assisted by the Finance law.
RESET. Return to the culture of saving.
The public debt should be forbidden. Just as has happened for smoking. It is an act of social obscenity. A way of encouraging us to be delinquents against ourselves. For Christmas give yourself a gift. Buy less and only what you can afford.

Posted by Beppe Grillo at 11:54 AM in | Comments (40)
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Giacomo,
Do you mean:
"If you're going to be a capitalist, you have to believe in a free market economy."
Donald Regan

???

If this is so, then I am afraid even the USA will not see someone like him very soon and of course neither Italy nor the rest of Europe....

Posted by: paola filinesi | December 30, 2006 12:49 AM


Hello everyone, just finished reading Mr. Draghi annual report for the Bank of Italy, and I do have to admit that is behaving exactly as I was expecting. Down on any government agency, entangled in managing everything, with no competence in anything (From University to Tfr) with the obvious result of creating just a huge bureaucratic disaster.
My remark is get the F*****g Government Agencies out of any Business activity that is better managed by the private sector. Halleluiah that would be the day I cheer for an Italy well served by the Administration (I would love to see an Italian Regan in power for 2 years). Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | December 29, 2006 02:17 PM


Hello there, and about the Industrial Entrepreneur in Italy or the lack of it, and the proof is in the pudding, IFIL (The financial arm of the Agnelli’s family) that basically is the major stock holder of Fiat, now that the mentioned Corporation seams to be pointing in the right direction and make a little money after decades of losses (Subsidized by the Italian Government to support employment) is investing this profits not in Italy but elsewhere. As of yesterday IFIL has bought the majority (Approx 67%) of the stock of Cushman & Wakefield (For approx. $563 Mil.) which is a Management Real Estate Company owned and operated since the beginning by Rockefeller Group International Inc. This after all is to show and support Italy and thank them for the moral and financial support they received from us, actually the Politicians we voted. Mr. Montezemolo was with Mr. Prodi when he went to China to sign Industrial Plan and Cooperation with Government support, the same can’t be sat for Industrial Venture Cooperation with the Tata Group in India, over there Fiat was already established as a car manufacturer (Although badly money loosing operation). And so our Captain of Industry when in need of support is pretty clear where to go although when the times are good and money rolls in they sure know better where to put them. Thanks and an ad-a-boy to all of us Italian suckers. Thanks again

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | December 20, 2006 03:17 PM


Mr. Enrico Rossi and Ms. Paola Filinesi

It looks like you guys can't go much beyond posting messages with only one word or concept: your silly insult.

Ms. Raffaella Biferale

Your reply is again not an answer. I am curious: do you not understand the question, or do you just prefer not to answer?

Posted by: Mark Sterling | December 20, 2006 12:35 PM


Hello there, and about the Industrial Entrepreneur in Italy or the lack of it I would like to spend my few cents on it. The first four Industrial groups are Government subsidized and in sequence are: Fiat (Iveco Alfa Romeo Lancia etc they are still in existence thanks to our subsidies) Finmeccanica (Agusta, Ansaldo, Fincantieri, Alenia etc think of the old IRI all Government Companies) ENI ( Saipem Agip etc State Companies) Enel (Electricity National Champion). Now all this Companies, and therefore their CEO’s or Managers whatever you would like to call them, I am sure they think of themselves as Professional and World Players on the open market. The truth of the matter is instead that they are where they are only because the Government allows their Company to survive, otherwise in the World Economy of today they would be wiped out in a blink of eye. Reality is that in today Economy, a Government by definition can not and should not run for Profit a Company or a Corporation. A Government by definition either is not able or it doesn’t know how to make profit, it’s existence is justified to work for the people by the people and not for Profits. The Industrial infrastructure in this Country is what it is only and by the function of the Government. I would like to burst Mr. Tronchetti, Mr. DeBenedetti, Mr. Montezemolo, Mr. Scaroni (Found guilty of Bribery in a Court of Law) Mr. Colaninno, Mr. Berlusconi, Mr. Guarguaglini etc, bubbles but they are in reality only puppets of the Political Establishment in this Country. The fact of the matter is that at the Davos Meeting these folks are not only not invited but not even welcome when they ask to go over there, and the reality is that they are the laughing stock of the Western Industrialized Countries. Why would any of them think to be a Champion in the industrial world beats the heck out of me, when the reality is, they are big and confident only when they talk to us average Joe Blow (They think we read only Italian Newspapers and not the World Newspapers). The Italian Government has to stop subsidizing these incompetent Managers, at the cost of Millions for nothing, actually most of the time at a loss of the Corporation itself. Put them all on the market and let’s see if they survive a year without Government handout or subsidy, and I would bet they will disappear tomorrow, only the real worthy one will still be there at the end. Just a reminder IRI was dismantled (A politically correct description of Run in the Ground) by our good Mr. Prodi at the cost of Trillions of Liras. The bottom line is, don’t be proud of these buffoons Industrial Champions the little Company and Artisan are the real Industrialist of this Country, these Idiots are only sucking you and Government dry, they are there only thanks and in proportion to the taxes you and I pay dearly. Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | December 20, 2006 12:23 PM


Mark Sterling:
There is a BIG difference between provocation and reply. Prof. Mill was the provocator, we only replied to him.
That's all.

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | December 20, 2006 11:23 AM


Should Beppe rename the English Blog the "SNERT BLOG"? It looks like we are mostly talking about him now. I guess this is what he's here for since his contribution is non-existent aside from being constantly provocative.
Please, let's stop replying to his insane insults as if he was a normal person. You all know that he's not!

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | December 20, 2006 03:28 AM



Just look at the replies:

One replied without answering the question.

The other doesn't even want to go that far!

And you guys claim you want "logical" and respectful conversations!

Forget the respect, but... where's the logic THERE!?


Posted by: Mark Sterling | December 20, 2006 01:21 AM


None of you complains when mockery or insults come from Enrico Rossi or evakulnura.

Wanna make respect a rule? Good. Then apply it on yourselves as well. Otherwise, forget it.
____

PS

An example of inchoherence is R. Biferale talking about people posting the "same shit" over and over... How about Mr. Rossi and his attempt at being insultiing by calling people SNERTs? While it is true that this only makes HIM look like a kindergarten child, his intention is of being insulting. Then, Ms. Biferale, do you condemn that attitude from Mr. Rossi?

I have a feeling your answer is NO. Which brings us back to square one.

Posted by: Mark Sterling | December 19, 2006 10:41 PM

--------

PROVOCATION is the word and the reason that explains the above.

"Hic Rhodus,hic saltus"
Aesopos

Paola Filinesi
pfilin@otenet.gr

Posted by: paola filinesi | December 20, 2006 01:06 AM


None of you complains when mockery or insults come from Enrico Rossi or evakulnura.

Wanna make respect a rule? Good. Then apply it on yourselves as well. Otherwise, forget it.
____

PS

An example of inchoherence is R. Biferale talking about people posting the "same shit" over and over... How about Mr. Rossi and his attempt at being insultiing by calling people SNERTs? While it is true that this only makes HIM look like a kindergarten child, his intention is of being insulting. Then, Ms. Biferale, do you condemn that attitude from Mr. Rossi?

I have a feeling your answer is NO. Which brings us back to square one.

Posted by: Mark Sterling | December 19, 2006 10:41 PM

--------

PROVOCATION is the word and the reason that explains the above.

"Hic Rhodus,hic saltus"
Aesopos

Paola Filinesi
pfilin@otenet.gr

Posted by: paola filinesi | December 20, 2006 01:01 AM


Raffa,
Please.....not again....what Mark Sterling for Christ's Sake???

Dont's waste your time...

Posted by: paola filinesi | December 20, 2006 12:47 AM


Mark Sterling:
What are you talking about?
This guy, the so-called Prof. Mill, began to insult me and other people on this blog. We only wanted to protect our space and pur right to discuss in peace.
We like our space , here on the blog. People like him have nothing to do with us.

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | December 20, 2006 12:25 AM


That's why I ask him to stick here with us,and to make a difference,with his comments,ciao

Posted by: evakulnura | December 20, 2006 12:19 AM


Eva: Giacomo is venting his frustration at the constant incoherent drivel that floods this Blog from Prof. Mill and his myriad clones like Mark Sterling etc..
Giacomo spends lots of time to write and research his posts and I'm sure he would appreciate some meaningful replies.

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | December 19, 2006 11:59 PM


Giacomo,if you go now,you will give in to the people that do not want beppe to succeed,and that would be a pity,ciao

Posted by: evakulnura | December 19, 2006 11:31 PM



None of you complains when mockery or insults come from Enrico Rossi or evakulnura.

Wanna make respect a rule? Good. Then apply it on yourselves as well. Otherwise, forget it.


____

PS

An example of inchoherence is R. Biferale talking about people posting the "same shit" over and over... How about Mr. Rossi and his attempt at being insultiing by calling people SNERTs? While it is true that this only makes HIM look like a kindergarten child, his intention is of being insulting. Then, Ms. Biferale, do you condemn that attitude from Mr. Rossi?

I have a feeling your answer is NO. Which brings us back to square one.

Posted by: Mark Sterling | December 19, 2006 10:41 PM


A simple password would reduce this problem a lot, but Beppe has not set up his Blog this way.
The only answer for now is to either Scroll or abstain.

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | December 19, 2006 07:17 PM


Pitiful or not they are opinions and should be respected as such...

We are asking for protection against abusive language,personal attacks,and stupid cloning...this is the main problem....

Posted by: paola filinesi | December 19, 2006 06:20 PM


On the italian side there is now the possibility to authenticate the signature, but those morons are still there.
I'm afraid we can't do anything against them, apart from don't react at all to their provocations.
The web is a open free space, , whether we like it or not, and that is the disadvantage of freedom. If somebody is so idiotic to waste his time repeating obsessively always the same shit, he will go on like this vor ever and ever until we continue answering him!
The only solution would be a censorship, but who really want it?
What do you think about it, guys?

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | December 19, 2006 05:59 PM



Unfortunately, the "opinions" welcomed in this blog are more pitiful than the mockery.


Posted by: Mark Sterling | December 19, 2006 04:05 PM


Giacomo,
I assume (and pls correct me if I am wrong) that you have decided to post here because you were fed up with the delinquency of the Italian side of the blog....
As soon as actions were taken against them there,all these delinquents decided to move here...:o(
Until the blog moderators decide to impose the same restrictions here, I am afraid you will have to suffer the consequence with the rest of us!!!

We have been crying out laud for a looong time now for help but no one seems to care about us!

So, my friend join the club....it's your choice...and pls direct your complaints else ware….

Paola Filinesi
pfilin@otenet.gr

Posted by: paola filinesi | December 19, 2006 03:16 PM


Giacomo:
I think these mentally impaired people are sent by somebody that is trying to destroy Beppe's blog.
As I wrote before, everybody leaves a trace...

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | December 19, 2006 02:02 PM


Hello there, I don’t like to point the finger at anyone in particular although this blog is becoming depressing. It sounds like a kindergarten for not growing up yet adults, with the inclination for swearing and cussing at each other just to get attention, and like children instead than expressing their opinion and verbalize their case they shut the messenger ridiculing the person rather than the idea he/she is expressing. I rest my case, and although not certain all of you are Italian or descendent of one, and these behavior is exactly why Italy is in the condition it is today. Thank to all of you and when you’ll grow up let the participant of this blog know, so we shall be able to communicate free from childish behavior like yours. Thanks again

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | December 19, 2006 01:25 PM


From Knezova Anka:

Nice Game!!!! HO HO HO HO HO HO !!!

Now cloning SANTA CLAUS big fan of the SNERT (MICKEY BOOOO)!!!!

YOU need a psychotherapist! YOU need a psychotherapist!
YOU need a psychotherapist! YOU need a psychotherapist!
YOU need a psychotherapist! YOU need a psychotherapist!
YOU need a psychotherapist! YOU need a psychotherapist!
YOU need a psychotherapist! YOU need a psychotherapist!
YOU need a psychotherapist! YOU need a psychotherapist!

Posted by: knezova anka | December 19, 2006 10:14 AM


Brufoli Rossi - now cloning Prof. J.S.M.:

You keep proving time and again what everyone has long figured out...

hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!
:DDDDD

Posted by: Dave Matthews | December 19, 2006 01:56 AM


I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!

Posted by: P.r.oo.f John Stuart Mill (Pentonville, London) | December 19, 2006 01:43 AM


Mr. Brufoli Rossi

has now started cloning Prof. J.S.M.

That's after all red pimples has said about clones!!! hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!

Now your own insults, pimple, apply to yourself!!!

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:DDDDDDDDDDD

Posted by: Dave Matthews | December 19, 2006 01:30 AM


Previše mnogobrojan prodaja na veliko......

Dopasti se nizati tri puta/times:
Morati ne pisati Italianize
Morati ne pisati Italianize
Morati ne pisati Italianize

Posted by: knezova anka | December 19, 2006 01:01 AM


I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!

Posted by: P.r.oo.f John Stuart Mill (Pentonville, London) | December 19, 2006 12:49 AM


avete visto porta a porta oggi proprio sul debito pubblico e la finanziaria? Vorrei un commento su come Vespa ha diretto la puntata. Si e' superato. Imparzialissimo

Posted by: alex knapic | December 19, 2006 12:04 AM


"Me too!" Enrico Rossi?

But you already do--have a huge gaping hole in your head...

Oh, that's your butt?!??

Sorry.

Posted by: Raffaella Pifferale | December 18, 2006 11:45 PM


If we have a brain in our heads and can use that brain then Banks/Credit Cards/Loans etc. are as good or bad as any other profitable business nowadays....
The choice is ours...

Posted by: paola filinesi | December 18, 2006 11:19 PM


Me too!

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | December 18, 2006 10:18 PM


Enrico:

I need a Plasma screen TV like I need a hole in my head.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | December 18, 2006 10:10 PM


I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!
I need a psychotherapist! I need a psychotherapist!

Posted by: Posted by: P.r.oo.f John Stuart Mill (Pentonville, London) | December 18, 2006 08:55 PM


Hey, you, Prof. Whatever:

Stop pestering my brother!

Posted by: Enrichetta Sederini Rossi | December 18, 2006 08:35 PM


One of Tiziano Terzani's friends told him while wandering in a Supermarket: "Look Tiziano, how many thinks for sale that I don't have any use for!".

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | December 18, 2006 06:47 PM


I would say also: Buy less and only what you need.
Personally I only need what makes me happy. But, as I often said, what makes me happy is not for sale, therefore I won't buy anything!
;-)))))))

Posted by: Raffaella Biferale | December 18, 2006 05:46 PM


My TV set is a regular 26" paid $235.00 at Best Buy because is an "open box".
Why do I have to buy a plasma screen TV set if I have a big living room? I'm not running out of space.
Also, I really not need to have a bigger TV to ruin my eyes faster and to have more radiation exposure.

The bottom line is that I can live without a lot of stuff, avoiding that invisible leash that the CCCompanies tie around the neck of gullible people.

My motto has been for years: "A little bit but mine" ("Poco ma mio").

With this I sleep better at night.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | December 18, 2006 04:56 PM


Hello there, maybe re-watching the flick Fighting Club would help anyone that has doubts about the finance world we have constructed ourselves, someone fully conscious of it someone unconsciously. The normal modus operand on the flow of money is the following; To make sure You (The tax payer) go to work each and every day one thing has to be laud and clear “You need to be in debt to someone!” and who better than the Credit Card Company (Visa, MasterCard, Amex, Discovery, Card Blanch etc). Once you accept and sign for a Card the circle is closed, more you’ll spend more credit they will give you, and the circle will keep expanding giving you more rope to hang yourself as long as you have a job (Therefore an Income, basic 101 of any finance). The problem arises as soon as either you lose your job or you max out on your credit, this is usually the edge of the slippery slope of no returns. There is no stupidity of the common folks, and for any shortcomings (Like in all the Newton’s laws) for any action there is an equal and opposite reaction, and for the Card Company means you are a bigger risk mitigated by a higher interest charge. Now they got you by the uevos and when they ask you to jump, you reply “How high you want me to jump, not should I jump or not jump, just how high”. Just as the Government of any Country is based on you going to work, earn a living pay your taxes, the Credit Card Company do exactly the same thing they advance you money until you have a job so you can go out buy things way over your needs and budget (Even worst if you don’t really need those things) although a small percentage has to charge on your Loan so you will go to work the next day and pay your debt to them (They make sure not to tug you too hard in the end you are the Golden Goose for them). This is called the circle of life in an endless search of the Italian Dream or American Dream or Whatever Country Dream is all the same and the center of this circle is You. I wish in the endless search of enlightenment to convince all the Checking Account holders in Italy to go in their Banks one day all at the same time (Lets say 10 AM on January 13 2007) and ask for all their money in the account cash mines 20 Euros (Just to keep the account balance positive) and see what will happen. I forecast a nightmare for all the Italians Banks (They one by one will refuse to give you your money, after all is your money) Banks will not be able to put in your hand and in circulation your money because it’s being used elsewhere from the Government, Credit Card Company, Investment Company etc and just as a reminder is your money. This action would cause an immediate collapse of all the Banks similar to what happen to Argentina and while over there it was caused by the Government (They had their money tied to the Dollar and they devalued the Pesos and the people with a lot of money invested withdrew their money and took it outside the Country) here instead it would be You that tripped the crash. So You are the Centre of the circle so take a look at that movie one more time before you go out and buy a vacation to the Seychelles or buy a LCD 50 inch. It’s all on your dime just don’t complain with the CCCompany when you can’t pay the bills, while even the Government is counting on your taxes to pay their bills. Wake up and be responsible or not is up to you. Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | December 18, 2006 02:49 PM


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