Iím in debt therefore I am

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The debt industry is eating up Italy. The public debt will soon become motivation for national pride, a moral reference. Private debt canít do less than that.
It has to increase. But the indebtedness capacity of the Italians needs help. If at one time there were loans for 10,000 Euro now you can borrow 1,000/1,5000. Itís now raining throttling ways for everyone. Debts for every type of household. For the weakest.
Parents are invited to get into debt for their children. Once they simply sent them out to work. But today to be a precarious worker costs more than the salary. Itís best to get into debt straight away. The loan sharks are thinking, working things out every day. The objective is the rate of interest (TAEG). Their jackpot is the repossession of the house from whoever doesnít keep up the repayments.
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ďDo you need money. Itís in your homeĒ is sublime. Everyone looking for money that doesnít exist underneath the sofa. To then go on and mortgage the home. Payment is made with debts, not with cash. The gain is in the interest thatís added, the product purchased is only an attraction.
When all the money is completely gone, then you can get the debt into debt. The debt on the debt could open up new horizons, new possibilities, new monetary perdition. There will be the multiple debts, those that are complex and derivatives and from time to time the suicides from jumping a repayment.

Posted by Beppe Grillo at 11:43 AM in | Comments (23)
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Congratulations for this HQ blog! I wish there was more stuff like this on teh internet. Beppe Grillo...you rule!

Best regards from Slovenia,

Mitja Safar

Posted by: Mitja Safar | February 28, 2007 10:00 PM


hey Mr Chiametti you might find this book an interesting reading here's the link: http://www.signoraggio.com/signoraggio_libro_ilpaesedellutopia.html

Posted by: piero sanna | February 18, 2007 09:32 PM


Hello there!
On this subject, I am very passionate as well as Mr. Sanna, although I am not a Financial Expert by any means I read books, newspapers and financial magazines from all over the world.
On the subject of Italy, why Foundations, Popolari Banks and Coops are in the Banking Systems and pays less taxes to the Treasury?
Is because their so called ďNot For ProfitĒ?
I am asking because I donít know, and maybe someone knows why?
Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | February 18, 2007 01:44 PM


Hello there!
On this subject, I am very passionate as well as Mr. Sanna, although I am not a Financial Expert by any means I read books, newspapers and financial magazines from all over the world.
I am aware the Federal Reserve is a Private Institutions, The Bank of Italy as well and by consequence the ECB (Since itís only an aggregation of European State Central Banks).
Having sat that, the implication is that if I am aware of it, so should millions of other Citizens of any Country, Italy included (Even more important in Italy due to the complete lack of control on money supply by Italian Institutions and free hands for Banks and so called Coop, Foundations and ABI!).
As I stated many times before, awareness is a must, in today life, and if any individuals, company or anything in between need cash or a loan he/she better be aware of all the implications.
Since the entire Banking System is based on the simple principle of ďThe Golden RuleĒ and since Gold has been controlled by Government since the beginning of time is very clear who has the reins of the matter.
Let get back to Italy now, until the Euro, Italy and Italian Bankers and Politicians were more than happy to stay home and control (Abuse) their home territory and hand out hefty profits to the few and powerful, while when the economy was in dire shape e depreciation of the currency usually kept Italy afloat.
Now since the dwarf at Bank of Italy Mr. Fazio was caught with his hand in the cookie jar, the Banks asses are open the picking of International Institutions, therefore a flurry of Aggregation and take over has initiated.
All of this because the inefficient and nepotism of Italian Bank has become synonymous with Italy and the Institutions.
I wrote many time to this blog readership, take all your money out of any Banks and Financial Institutions at the same time (Minus 20 Euro) and all of the Banks will crumble in a blink of an eye (Every Bank has approx. 20% of their Administration at hand at any given time).
Although be aware Italy will crumble, the Institutions will disappear and like it usually happen in Italy only, all the Politicians and watchdogs will point the finger at each other and nobody will take any responsibility including the ECB.
The perfect example was Argentina, who had the money (Very few) did not agree with the Government and took their money elsewhere (Mostly US) and the Banking system crumble because the Government was trying to take control of the Banking System.
Itís your money and the profits from it that keeps the system going, and while Prime Rate is at 3.5% the interest to you is at approx. 0.5-0.75% at best, that leaves on the table 2.75-3.00% for the Bank to manage your money, while if they loaned it someone at approx. 5-6 % you do the math.
You are the piggy Bank for the system, so take charge, be aware, make your money speak for you.
As for the Gold System, that system couldnít cope with the amount of money flow generated by today Economies, although irrelevant which system should have been implemented, the few Individuals that with Government approval seized the right to Finance Government Expenditure, obviously guarantied by the right to Your Taxes.
Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | February 18, 2007 01:32 PM


To Enrico Rossi and Giacomo Chiametti:

I hope my recent posts weren't perceived as prescriptive or opinionated. I immensely enjoy your comments and I see you as the two main sorces of contribution to this blog.

I never assumed that you were less informed than me on this particular issue, and I certainly don't think of you as naive. Unfortunately, I am very passionate about this subject as I am adamant that this 'Banking system' really is the core of the problem and the vast majority of people seem to ignore it. In my opinion ther's no point in keeping discussing Global Warming, social injustice, politics etc. They all are simple and plain consequences. Many brillant thinkers and bright minds haven't concentrated enough on this matter.

Till the day masses will be kept ignorant about the crucial role that the monetary system plays in the quality of their lives, every attempt to shed light on social injustice or political scandals will be meaningless and utterly useless.
Thank you
Piero

Posted by: piero sanna | February 18, 2007 11:32 AM


Dear Eva,
You might find this one much more interesting.
Here's the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJJ9rzReXso

If you find this interesting, you should also view the three videos available in the same page on Giacinto Auriti. They are an extraordinary document, very rare and relatelively unknown.
Giacinto Auriti has exerted tremendous influence on Beppe Grillo for many years ... he once defined him as his most zealous and interested student.

Posted by: piero sanna | February 18, 2007 11:01 AM


To Eva:

Available in Italian. Click home and then the Italian flag. Video still available on you tube, very funny as always.

Posted by: rob zava | February 18, 2007 09:01 AM


I tried to watch Beppe video but has been remove,I wonder why,has he step on the wrong shoes,with this comment?

Posted by: eva kulnura | February 18, 2007 07:08 AM


Piero,not everybody is naive about the modus operandi of Central Banks and their pyramid scheme called fiat money supply. Their shenanigans include the manipulation of the "official" rate of inflation through the use of bogus statistical data. Everybody and his brother knows that prices of many goods and especially energy have skyrocketed and yet inflation is regularly pronounced to be moderate and well under control. We are the sheep to be shorn and the shepherds have name like Wolfowitz and Wolfensohn.

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | February 17, 2007 07:51 PM


Notice, also, the kind of publicity given to these little and larger debts, the financial companies and credit card companies invest so much to brainwash all and sundry that nothing can be possible without them!

Even the very subtle verses uttered on one particular ad... for example, "spending time with your beloved is priceless... but for the rest there is MCard"... nowadays, the idea of easy money has started sinking in deeply even in young children, let alone young adults and adults alike who, sometimes, leap and jump instead of walk carefully in their financial matters.

The result is often a muddle, sometimes taking out another loan to pay a previous loan. What a mess, and what lack of serious education. Going into debts is often a personal choice [sometimes dictated by necessities over which you have no power] but it is also true that many do not even stop to consider seriously the BURDEN of debts. The man in the street is not going to stop and ponder about how much profit Chase & Rotschild or any other Banking Institution are making. People often stop at the level of their personal needs and that is where the real danger lies. They have no foresight.

Posted by: Joselle Camilleri | February 17, 2007 06:46 PM


Giacomo,
I usually appreciate your comments, this time though I beg to differ. I think personal responsability has very little to do with this.

Everybody needs money for the most diverse reasons. This is a system that has been imposed on us. Reducing your spending would have very little effect on what really drives this kind of economy. Public awareness about this subject is the answer. As you may know money has just a nominal value and it really starts to be 'worth ' something when you and I (and society as a whole ) accept money as the means for trade and financial transactions.

In other words the real value of money is the 'trust' that you put into it. Central Banks can be closed tomorrow with the reintroduction of debt free money issued by the people at no cost. It's been done many times before and it worked! Lincoln, Guernsey Island, the Tally stick system are all enlightening examples of how relatively easy it has been and it would be, to get rid of this fucking Fiat(from latin 'let it be done') currency.

Come on folks! I do not mean to be offensive or disrespectful in any way but it's beyond me how people fail to see the implications that such a monetary practice entails. Money supply is directly manipulated by banks and by making money scarce they plunge national economies into panic and severe crisis.
GNPs mean fuckall! they are manipulated and daily twicked by Central Banks. If you would like to know how they manage to do this I will gladly write another comment about on this issue! that's enough for now. I don't want to MONOPOLIZE the blog with this shit.
Thank you!
Piero

Posted by: piero sanna | February 17, 2007 05:27 PM


Hello there, very interesting subject
As many time stated before, folks letís stop crying wolf and start thinking Personal Responsibility!
Every individual that has in his/her pocket a Credit Card, or Payment Check for an item purchased with a loan is a culprit here.
Itís like the unstoppable flow of drugs, everybody cries wolf at Colombia, while in Rome they stuffed their noses with cocaine.
Folks, wherever there is a demand for goods there always will be someone willing and ready to supply it.
It is and has always been this way, with the difference that back then You had no access to credit, now you do, the requirement for a CC. or a loan are almost non existing.
My son for goodness sake 12 years old was offered a CC via the net.
Personal Responsibility, you use the CC or walk into a Financial Institution for a loan, you know how much you earn and how credit worth you are.
Letís stop pointing the finger and cry ďThe Devil Made Me Do ItĒ if you or whoever likes to play hard well works hard too.
All emancipated people right!
Well, emancipated only until the money runs out.
Think before spending, there is no free lunch anywhere, even less in Italy.
Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | February 17, 2007 04:44 PM


Sullivan,
That's exactly right! It's a very well crafted multifaceted global scam!!!!! What really scares me is the lack of awareness that there is around this subject. My father is a retired Bank manager with 30 years of service on his shoulders. He begrudgingly admits that the Banking system is very unscrupulous in its practices and that Banks stopped being of any service many years ago. However he was extremely surprised when I brought before him the irrefutable evidence that a very small banking oligarchy (international Bankers) is ruling the world. Many in this blog believe that America is the ďproblem". The Us is just a puppet in the hands of these tyrants. I know that many of you guys will regard these views as extreme. Before you say that I was sold on cheap conspiracy theories, try to gather as much information as you can on this subject. I can assure that after a while everything will make sense.

"Money will cease to be the master and become the servant of humanity" Abraham Lincoln 16th president of the United States

Posted by: piero sanna | February 17, 2007 12:51 PM


That's true, I have just realized I was talking about micro-economy, money that you can actually "see" and perhaps even control yourself, sorry for the little off topic.
As Piero said, that's just the tip of the iceberg, things are far greater and far scarier when we consider public debts and who has the power to control money at the source.
Is there a solution, or we are all sitting in a car without driver and sooner-or-later we are all going to crash badly?

Posted by: Marco Ingrosso | February 17, 2007 12:35 PM


Piero,

The reality is that every tier of this usury "business" stinks. From the small, privately-owned loan companies that tempt the public with offers of easy money - normally secured on your property, to those who offer easy ways out of your existing indebtedness - by loaning you the same money over a longer period, normally at a higher rate of interest. TV in the UK is infested with adverts for such companies.

In the next tier of this festering mess are the traditional "bricks and mortar" banks, who tempt their customers with loans to buy cars they can't afford, or even mortgages on property they can't really afford.

Further up the pyramid of usury you will find the central banks. They, as you say, have a monopoly on issuing currency, currency that is rarely backed up with tangible assets such as gold. It is a literal license to print money.

"Give me control of a nation's money
and I care not who makes her laws" - Meyer Rothschild.

At the top of this vile business are the IMF, the World Bank and the little known International Bank of Settlements.

Ci fregano ad ogni livello

Posted by: Sullivan | February 17, 2007 10:29 AM


Dear Marco,
you are missing the point mate!!!!
Here we are not talking about your average Bank.
The kind of bank you have in mind is the one that people have to deal with on a everyday basis. They are private lenders and private financial enterprises. Despite their shamefull credit policy they are just the tip of the iceberg. Can't you see that these kind of financial practices are only possible because we live in a society that is based and dependent on usury. Central Banks are thought to be governative and state owned. For more than 300 years a bunch of very powerful and extremely rich bankers (Rothchilds/Morgan/Rockfeller) have been making trillions of profits out of many countries public debt.Dont you get it? If you have the rigth to print money, the exclusive right to issue coins and banknotes (that at their original state are worth fuckall) and you don't back this money with reserve (wich means you just lend the amount of money that you have assets for)you have on your hands the most influential and profitable monopoly
ever existed. Think about it my friend! what is public debt? who did you think we owed that money to? Another important aspect of this monopoly is that by having the exclusive right to issue money, Banks can control at their discretion the QUANTITY of money in circulation and therefore heavily influence what is known as 'the business cycle'.
Periods of growth and times of recession are directly regulated by central banks. They expand and contract the 'money flow' at their leisure. By doing this they achieve profit maximation on public debt.
Now, who should see this matter from a different
prospective?

Posted by: piero sanna | February 17, 2007 07:56 AM


Dear Marco,
You are missing the point mate!!!!
Here we are not talking about your average Bank.
The kind of bank you have in mind is the one that people have to deal with on a everyday basis. They are private lenders and private financial enterprises. Despite their shamefull credit policy they are just the tip of the iceberg. Can't you see that these kind of financial practices are only possible because we live in a society that is based and dependent on usury. Central Banks are thought to be governative and state owned. For more than 300 years a bunch of very powerful and extremely rich bankers (Rothchilds/Morgan/Rockfeller) have been making trillions of profits out of many countries public debt.Dont you get it? If you have the rigth to print money, the exclusive right to issue coins and banknotes (that at their original state are worth fuckall) and you don't back this money with reserve (wich means you just lend the amount of money that you have assets for)you have on your hands the most influential and profitable monopoly
ever existed. Think about it my friend! what is public debt? who did you think we owed that money to? Another important aspect of this monopoly is that by having the exclusive right to issue money, Banks can control at their discretion the QUANTITY of money in circulation and therefore heavily influence what is known as 'the business cycle'.
Periods of growth and times of recession are directly regulated by central banks. They expand and contract the 'money flow' at their leisure. By doing this they achieve profit maximation on public debt.
Now, who should see this matter from a different
prospective?

Posted by: piero sanna | February 17, 2007 07:54 AM


Let's see this matter from a different prospective, shall we?
Yes, is true that the various banks, credit card companies, loans companies, so far and so forth, are just a whole bunch of leeches, some bigger (like the italian ones, as usual...), other smaller than others, but all interested in sucking everyone's blood, ergo our money.
There is no secret on this, and people should stop thinking naively that who lend you money, lots of it, don't pretend anything back.
Yes, the interests on debits are ridiculously high, while credits are always rewarded with peanuts in comparison.
Yes, they should be taken to court for forcing people deeper into the well of debts if someone can't afford to pay back within a reasonable amount of time.
And yes, those companies have the power of money around the world, therefore they can make our life misery, and this is simple unacceptable!
My point is another though.
During the past, lets say, 40 years, people has become constantly greedier and greedier in my view.
With the illusion of "easy money" through debts, they started to think bigger and bigger than ever in history. For the first time in the story of humanity, someone can afford something they could only dream in the past, even without having a penny in their pockets, all thanks to the banks and financial companies. You just have to ask how much you want.
So now if you want either a new car, a sofa, kitchen, the latest gismo on the market, a mobile phone, ipod deluxe, lcd tv, or maybe a holiday in paradise, you don't need to wait months/years to save money, you just need to take your "magic-little" credit card or dial your bank's number.
We live in the digital era, the old concept of money doesn't exist anymore, and who don't keep track of his money can get in deep troubles.
Why our grand-parents could buy a house and still be able to rise and feed a family? I don't believe their salaries at the time were so much higher than ours, even if taxes I think were lower, much lower...
In conclusion, I recon that if people would check carefully their bank statement BEFORE buying expensive stuff, and think of the consequences of adding another debt to their shoulders, well, maybe in many would have less material things but fewer worries as well.

Posted by: Marco Ingrosso | February 17, 2007 12:31 AM


One day everybody will be tired of this shit and will rebel in a bloody way.

Did you guys see what were the intended targets of the New BR?

I think that if they would have done that, very few people would have been disappointed or turned their head the other way.

This climate would be the perfect way for terrorism to get its way.
Terroristr without scruples would get their way by convincing everybody that that's the way to go and of course there would be only more fear and more blood that would serve only a small group of people.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | February 17, 2007 12:11 AM


I agree with you guys 100%,yes money mamagent should be study in school to many young kids are deep into dets with the credit cards,big scam,ciao

Posted by: eva kulnura | February 16, 2007 09:38 PM


Stefano Manfreo,
I could not have put it better myself!!!!!
What you say is of paramount importance. The monetary banking system has been ruling the world for 300 years. This is the matrix of all evils, who doesn't understand this is destined to have a partial understanding of what really makes the economy tick. Many prominent and influential figures tried to reintroduce debt free money (gold standard/ full reserve banking) and most of the times they payed with their lives. People regardless of their cultural background, race, religion and social status ignore the fact that central banks (Bank of England/ Italy/ France/ Federal reserve) are private. they do not belong to the state. They are entirely private and fully commited to make only the interest of their shareholders. They are the major cause of public debt. We owe money that has been created out of nothing thanks to the principle of fractional reserve banking. Come on folks wake the fuck up!
This article has been kindly sponsored by:

Rothchilds Rockfeller and JP Morgan fondations

Posted by: piero sanna | February 16, 2007 06:38 PM


I've been debt free most of my life. I was lucky not to have had major unforeseen expenses in my life and luck is very important, but if you learn how to save and avoid buying what you don't need you'll be surprised to learn what compound interest and wise investing can do for you. Money management must be made a compulsory subject in school: too many people are totally ignorant of these matters to their perpetual chagrin.

Posted by: Enrico Rossi | February 16, 2007 03:20 PM


Thank you for raising such an important issue Beppe, an issue which is bitterly and painfully real to many millions of people around the world, not just in Italy.

What you describe is not happening just because of the greed of the banking system, in trying to make ever more money, which is never enough of course.

Control of people through debts is the ultimate
goal I believe; people heavily in debt are no longer free to decide about their own lives but become actual slaves of the banks, credit card companies, etc., who gain influence over their lives, often a lot of influence, by means of the debts they very skilfully manipulate people into.

Debts = dependency = control, is the formula being applied.

Governments should be able to print their own money and make it available to people interest free, when needed, so that people have to pay for only one house, when they buy their homes, and not struggle for many years in order to pay for 2 or 3 houses, in order to own one, as it turns out at the end of their mortgages, once all the interest is added up, but the large banking monopolies and the central banks they control, do not allow this to happen and most people are totally unaware of it; they just assume that it is one of those "normal" things of life which is just that way . . . and which they cannot do anything about, anyway. . .exactly what their financial manipulators, and their political puppets want them to believe, so that they can continue to profit obscenely, and cause mountains of totally un-necessary toil and suffering to millions of people's lives.

Banks and all major financial sharks, have rigged the game in their favour, ladies and gentlemen,
time to wake up, instead of getting into even more debts for their benefit.

Posted by: Stefano Manfreo | February 16, 2007 03:00 PM


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