Incinerators. No Comment

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Paul Connett, Professor of Environmental Chemistry at St Lawrence University of New York talks about incinerators and the strategy of “zero refuse” .

Posted by Beppe Grillo at 09:53 PM in | Comments (25)
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If Bassolino and Iervolino managed to stay in power for so long in the Campania Region, the people only have themselves to blame. Unless, even the elections are "rigged" by the Camorra?

As Beppe says, the rotting fish stinks from the head and that is probably why "il presidente" Napolitano isn't moving a finger to oust Bassolino and Iervolino.

They've appointed a "super" Commissioner but Bassolino is to work alongside him ...

Oh well folks, more of the same I'm afraid!

Posted by: Adri Mian | January 11, 2008 08:17 AM



Why always look the USA for environment?
China is 10 years more advanced and "without barking at moon on media" is applying the Kyoto protocol.
Not because the piece of paper is good, simple because the green choice is good for everyone, better quality cheaper prices.
Death penalty for political corruption evidently keep chinese politicians sometimes active on people's need and not ONLY on interests of some old big corporations or various mafie and lobbies.

Posted by: fabrizio | January 10, 2008 10:32 PM


Mister Grillo,
You seems to be like any other politician wishy washy in Italy.........just exposing and collecting signature for what?.......to change or clean up parliament?
Well, i think you should take a very hard look at the situation......like in Naples, which you did with your video without a comment, and your picture of the garbages in Campania, don't need any comment.
Having said this, i would like people like you and the italian people to take actions more effective and togheter with the mayors of every city, demonstrate all togheter in the public squares, and immediate solution to get reed of troublemakers, like the thousend of migrants, gypsies, roms,cicanos,nord-africans,cinese and whatnots who have invaded our small country and are robbing and killing and stupring italian citizen in their own homes.
Only turists, the way has been for ages in Italy shoul be allowed to come in. But tourist are not coming any more!............because are afraid to get robbed and killed! by this scum gypsies and mulattos and gang of migrants from other races, who come in Italy not to spend money as a turist, but come to Italy without money and make money by robbing and killing.
So.......not more talking.......it's time to take action......and action to remove people in government who are responsable for the ruin and situation to defend the integrity and security of our country. Think about it!....what are the effective steps to solve the problems........before every thing is crumbling and reaching the point of no return.........or close to like the situation in Naples........were everything will end up in garbage!

Posted by: Mike Barbone | January 10, 2008 10:29 PM


Caro Beppe, sono un italiano affranto e ormai apatico, dico la verità.
Ti segnalo una situazione, che al confornto di altre è una sciocchezza, ma non mi piacciono gli approfittatori.
Sono un’amante del mondo sportivo e mi piace frequentare le palestre. Le ritengo un punto di ritrovo molto importante anche per l’ampia fasci d’età che ad oggi frequenta l’ambiente. Veniamo al dunque. Ad oggi, il certificato per frequentare le palestre non è più necessario: basta fare un’autocertificazione. Se non si è in grado, basta scaricarsi da internet un modulo e firmarlo.
Ho provato a spiegarlo alle palestre, ma si rifiutano di accettarlo e i dottori fingono che non sia così, il tutto perché un certificato medico costa 30 euro.
Credo che sia una questione di principio oltre che dei 30 euro, diffondere la cosa.
Considerate il bacino utenti di frequentatori di ambienti sportivi.
Magari sbaglio, puoi informarti?

Posted by: Alessio Adami | January 10, 2008 08:59 PM


Hello! I must admit your blog is very useful in helping me to understand the Italian psyche. I have now moved back here after more than 40 years and I can still not understand the Italians and especially not the Napoletani. They don't want incinerators so they burn the rubbish in the streets instead????? I enjoy your comments and above all your attitude!

Posted by: Ella Fallgren | January 10, 2008 08:06 PM


Hello everyone,
It’s not only my perception, but in Italy is time someone gets a good dose of reality.
In any business, small company or big corporation, when the time is up for any project usually the person in charge says “Either you take a dump or get off the pod!”
This literally and simply means, either you do it or say no and walk away.
14 years would make the dead line of any project, on the other hand not for Campania!
To make the problem more convoluted, the top Public Managers do not even remotely consider stepping down, even less quitting.
Now the time is right for reality check, and what better opportunity for the Institution to regain some credibility (To be honest at this juncture Italian Institution are more a liability than a solution!) fire the Top Manager for Incompetence and establish a threshold for the rest.
Since these people are handsomely paid, because they promised efficiency, swift action, credibility and million other capabilities.
Will they do it?
Noooooooooooo, rest assure, even an idiot wouldn’t shoot itself in the foot, because establishing examples has a dual edge, raises expectations in people.
Next time it would be applicable to anyone?
The future looks bright wear shades.
Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | January 10, 2008 03:13 PM


Great video and great sensible comments. However Dr. Connett failed to discuss about the deaths, tumours, and other diseases that resulted from open fires, illegal fires, illegal dumps and rubbish left on the streets to rotten.
Incinerators are never the best option, but given the circumstances I think they are a viable option.
The best option by far is separate rubbish collection.
Unfortunately Naples and most of southern Italy is far behind the rest of Europe. Although separate collection does not necessarily means recycling, if we manage to remove certain type of waste, we can then quite safely transfer the remaining waste to the incinerators or landfill without major health problems.
As we all know, Dioxin is the public health enemy number one, and Dioxin is released in a number of ways, from manufacturing processes, to pesticides and weed killers, car pollution, and even smoking. In the waste disposal process, Dioxin is released by burning certain type of plastic that it is unfortunately very abundant in our daily life.
However, if we manage to remove or reduce the amount of plastic (by separating it from other waste) we could burn the remaining waste quite safely.
As it happens in many other countries we could also separate food leftovers, that can be easily transformed in compost.
Glass can be recycled or even crushed and stored, metal can be recycled and sold and paper and cardboard can be recycled or even burned.
There are other high tech systems that can treat not sorted rubbish and produce fuel, compost, energy and very little waste. Check on http://www.parkroyal.org/environment/waste-recycling.php and download the renewable fuel plant.pdf on the right. This will require substantial camorra free investment though.
Finally I believe that separate collection must be completely endorsed by all people of Naples and quite frankly I cannot se this happening. Napoletani and to a certain extent many of other Italians have very little respect for the law, the institutions, themselves, the others and the community they live in. In the same way people do not use the seat belt, DUI, do not pay taxes, do not wear the helmet ecc., so they will never care about separate collection.
It is so easy to blame the politicians, but it is hard to change for the better from within.

Posted by: Andrea Ceccanti | January 10, 2008 01:07 PM


This is the link on my toolbar

http://gilioli.blogautore.espresso.repubblica.it/2008/01/09/lintervista-mai-fatta-a-beppe-grillo/

Posted by: vincenzo calabria | January 10, 2008 11:12 AM


Hi Vincenzo Calabria,

Are you sure your link is correct? Check it.

Posted by: Gabriele Arrighetti | January 10, 2008 08:26 AM


QUESTI SONO PROBLEMI MAI AVUTO IN iTALIA.
cON L'invasione degli zingari e migranti, ora i rifuiti a napoli, la camorra....gli omicidi il caos, il traffico......e tutti i problemi di un 60 milioni di persone che vivono congestate in un piccolo territorio......governate da nessuno! da menefreghisti che stanno al governo e pensano solo al loro salario mensile.
e governi e politici tipo weltroni, percoraro, prodi ferrero montalcini ministri ebraici dei centri sociali e ministero dei zingari che si preoccupano solo di questi migranti e zingari che rubano e uccidono e stuprano ed anno ridotto il nostro paese ad una repubblica di zingari!
basta!....colioni! e' ora di farla finita subito.......tanto con i rifiuti e con i cicani e zingari che rubano e uccidono e stuprano!
Italiani come me.....non avrei mai creduto che si fossero ridotti a questo modo......essere aggrediti, rubati e uccisi da migranti zingari rom a casa nostra senza che noi italiani reagiamo!......possibile mai che non grega niente piu' a nessuno! possibile che sono diventati tutti vigliacchi.....senza la forza di difendersi? Ora, arrivera' l'ora, spero non troppo tardi.....dove i cittadini si difenderanno con i loro pugnali e pistole e fucili.............per liberare ilm paese dalla invasione barbara.........dai rifiuti e dai traditori del popolo che hanno causato tutta questa rovina al paese! tutti gli stranieri, tranne turisti in buona fede, devono sparire.....e coloro che li accolgono in Italia!
subito!

Posted by: Merdone Barbone | January 10, 2008 05:50 AM


The new world order!
The great Satan.....and the axis of evil!
WORLD WAR III....IS COMING!
Make no mistake about it!
The rock and rool, sex, drugs, gay and lesbian, oral sex, porno dictatorship......which is responsable for the ruin of america and Italy, will be destroyed and will be incinereted.
The pornographaers, parasites of today's propaganda...........will be arrested and send to concentration camps to work!
The american zionist woman.anglosasson......will be given so many lashes for adultery!....will be forced to cover her seminude body...and stay home and wash the dishes....and not go on the streets to negoziate blow jobs, oral sex...to men!...in their cars! Too many prostitute! How many prostitute there are in Rome and Milan?
What kind of people are there in Italy now? so many gypsies, cicanos, e cinesi e northafrican e cinese concubines.........................tha's italy today ,mister grillo?
Chiamata alle armi.......subito.......ripulire il nostro paese......stranieri fuori tutti e coloro che li accolgono in Italia! a calci in culo!

Posted by: M.Barbone | January 10, 2008 05:17 AM


The Garbage in Naples?
Let's not change argument to push aside the real problems who are urgent to be solved immediately.
The criminal zionist system anglosasson american of "rock and roll, sex and drugs, gay and lesbianic dictatoship, who is the ruin of Italy and other contries......and that kin of propaganda "scum", coming out of zionist mafia in Hollywood and rome jewish getto,.....responsabile for all the troubles today.......while in the name of democracy they invaded irak, killed 150.000 iraqi people...innocent of any attacks on america sept.11, terrorizing many more bombarding their homes at night...........and killing so many mercenary american soldiers every day.........even today another 10 american service men blown up in irak!
and grillo.......people and the zionist press not even mention this!
they worry about britney spear who victim of the zionist propaganda of the rock and roll and sex and drugs......may be pregnant!.....that what they worry about in the news papers!
and the try to import this kind of culture of rock and roll and sex and drugs in Irak?
no way!.....................the glorious people of iraq......will burn alive the rock and rollers, sex and drugs, gay and lesbianic dictatorship zionist anglo american?
don't you think so? iraki people are family people.....they don't want their women to be like the american women...and now in Italy too, seminude and porno and appearing all over the place!.......burn them!....forever!

Posted by: Merdone barbone | January 10, 2008 04:39 AM


Incinerate the incinerators. Soo horrible.

Posted by: Hannah Toews | January 9, 2008 09:05 PM


caro beppe prima impara a confrontarti con i giornalisti

http://gilioli.blogautore.espresso.repubblica.it/2008/01/09/lintervista-mai-fatta-a-beppe-grillo

Posted by: vincenzo calabria | January 9, 2008 06:13 PM


per vedere come e con quali termini lo stesso problema viene affrontato in Canada provate il sito della cbc, principale fonte d'informazione in canadese.

VVVVVVVVVVVVVV

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2008/01/09/durham-incinerator.html

Posted by: E. | January 9, 2008 05:59 PM


I sure would like to know why in Zurich, Vienna, Paris and London garbage incinerators are belching out dioxin over people's heads. In my city an incinerator was dismantled. It caused a higher rate of cancer in the people living in its vicinity. Now all garbage is re-cycled and re-used, in one way or another. I also would like to know why there might not be a market for re-cycled paper as stated in Franco Battaglia's post. Acres and acres of woodland is cleared-cut to feed paper mills. The demand for paper seems insatiable.

Posted by: Louis Pacella | January 9, 2008 04:28 PM


Hello everyone,
Legitimated by the Law of Random Chaos!
The Demise path overlapping the Laws of Physics and where else it could be demonstrated better than in Italy.
The Prime Minister states verbatim “We are out of the crisis, Italy is growing again!”.
This statement was 10 days ago, and as the new year starts, stock market looses 3% (From 7% to 9.53% today not over yet!).
Garbage problem in Campania, and the solution is to put an Impressive adjective in front of the new “Super Commissioner!”, problem solved back to square 101.
Unions threatening strikes everywhere, from Public Administration to Alitalia and steel worker.
The Justice System is comatose to the point of Ridicule themselves (Between Branches!) while crime is going through the roof, everyone is wiretapped including worthless bimbos, and all for nothing.
Solution is obvious, although there is no more money?
Not only this Government is leading the Country on the brink of Civil War, but the ridicules fact is that each and every one of this Incompetent Idiots refuses to resign!
Procrastinating on reforms for the last 30 years is rapidly coming to a head butt against today society.
Italian are asked to behave as a democratic and emancipated society, while the Pinnacle Managing the Country is unaccountable more than ever.
70% of GNP get’s wasted in worthless Public Service, Politicians don’t decide and float through the legislation (Most of them are at the end of their carrier, they are done any how!) taxes have reach absurd levels, paycheck are loosing purchase power by the minutes and you can see the rest.
I would be very angry as well, but rests assure, they are not worry at all, and for the simple reason they do not have to justify anything to you.
Mr. Prodi will return to Goldman Sachs!
Mr. Berlusconi has plenty of Villa’s everywhere!
Mr. Dalema is fishing for the EU Foreign Minister Job!
Mr. Bertinotti will retire, please not a minute too soon!
Mr. Veltroni, he is already s**t up the creek with the PD Party!
Mr. Fini, please his credibility is down the tube while having a kid with a show biz bimbo!
Mr. Casini, well his name is already a good description, although it should be changed to Mr. Flip-flop!
While for all the Ministers currently administering the Country, I will leave it to you to decide?
Mr. DiPietro, should go back to Italian school, while 70% of Magistrate applying for jobs are rejected because illiterate?
Mr. Bersani really strikes me, couldn’t even deregulate taxi, how could he deregulate anything?
Are these the Future of Italy?
Please someone anyone; put Italy out of his own miseries!
The future looks bright wear dark shades!
Thanks

Posted by: Giacomo Chiametti | January 9, 2008 04:23 PM


I dati su i tumori dei residenti vicino agli inceneritori, in italia, sono interessanti. Sarebbe interessante anche analizzare il perche' allora a Vienna ne hanno installato uno in pieno centro. Magari ci sono inceneritori ed inceneritori, come centrali nucleari e centrali nucleari, e magari noi in italia come al solito costruiamo inceneritori alla chernobyl.
Vorrei pero' vedere i dati sulle persone che vivono vicino ad una discarica? ce ne sono? Ragazzi l'italia ela campania in particolare e' sommersa dai rifiuti e non produce abbastanza energia elettrica, ma che aspettiamo a costruirli sti inceneritori? o vogliamo mandarli sulla luna con un razzo questi rifiuti??? Il nucleare No, l'alta velocita' No' gli inceneritori No e ci ritroviamo senza energia, sempre meno competitivi ma pieni di MUNEZZA. Ben ci sta.

Leggete:
'Che la raccolta differenziata sia una cosa bischera è semplice da capire. Innanzitutto, con essa non si smaltiscono i rifiuti ma li si separa. L'idea sarebbe di riciclarli. Il condizionale non lo uso a caso. Infatti, il limite della produzione di riciclo è quello di mercato: a che pro un riciclo spinto, ad esempio, del vetro o della carta se poi il mercato del vetro scuro (che è il vetro che si può produrre dalla raccolta differenziata del vetro) o della carta riciclata è limitato? Che cosa succede al vetro e alla carta riciclati che rimangono invenduti? Vanno a finire il primo in discarica e la seconda bruciata negli inceneritori. Tanto valeva portarcela prima. Se l'inceneritore c'è. Ma in Campania non c'è, fatto di cui Pecoraro Scanio è sempre stato orgoglioso, come lo è per l'assenza di reattori nucleari in Italia.
Stare un mese sotto un inceneritore è come stare un quarto d'ora in via del Tritone a Roma. I 4 inceneritori nel Lazio inquinano meno di 5 automobili, e s'inala più diossina a starsene pochi minuti vicino ad un barbecue o a fumarsi una sigaretta. (Vorrei poter spiegare anche che la diossina a piccole dosi fa bene: magari un'altra volta). Francoforte, Zurigo, Vienna, Londra e Parigi hanno, in piena città, inceneritori da 1500 tonnellate al giorno di capacità. Perché loro sì e Napoli no? In Europa, un terzo dei rifiuti viene bruciato e utilizzato per la produzione di energia; in Italia meno del 10%. Perché loro sì e noi no? In Europa un terzo dell'energia elettrica è prodotta da fonte nucleare. Perché loro sì e noi no? Forse perché non hanno, loro, quella croce che la cattiva sorte ci ha mollato sul groppone?

Franco Battaglia

Docente di Chimica Ambientale

Università di Modena


Posted by: Bruno Schisano | January 9, 2008 02:22 PM


adoro i bucatini alla matriciana

Posted by: sensatio | January 9, 2008 02:18 PM


Pat,

I cannot imagine that a disaster of this magnitude would happen in a normal country.
If yes:
All the responsibles would be immediately fired.
Furthermore they should be convicted for natural disaster etc...etc...
All the administrations and companies involved should be fined to pay back the public money received for doing the job and shut down.
Problably no one of these points will be applied in Italy.

Posted by: Gabriele Arrighetti | January 9, 2008 01:26 PM


i agree with Barcelona Chair!! good points well articulated, you've hit the nail right on the head with that one.

i cant remember who said "you have the government you deserve", maybe they were right. whats been happening recently should have the italians outraged and on the streets (thats if they can push past the rubbish heaps). what reaction from the majority of italians? not just in naples but in the whole of italy!!

eh beh, siamo in italia = ah well, this is italy.

what happened to the MILLIONS that has been spent in campania for years on sorting out this disaster?

the only solution is to sack the local and regional governments, from the first to the last, and get in some serious people.

would the swedes do it do you think gabriele?

Posted by: pat kerr | January 9, 2008 10:46 AM


I agree with you Fabrizio,

The politicians are not stupid, not at all. It is required a certain dose of intelligence for screwing a population for decades and still maintain the power.
What I would like to add is that because I live in Sweden I see how strong is here the information freedom. The politicians and public personalities are constantly under the eyes of the people, through the media. Few weeks ago, for example, one of the member of the executive of Mr. Reinfeld (the Prime Minister) had been discovered that had paid black money to the housekeeper....well it caused a crise in the executive...a crise which is still unsolved.
Can you imagine something like this in Italy?
Things like these are only possible thanks rules which are exactly the opposite of the Italian "Legge sulla privacy". "Transparency" rules here ( by the way it has some negative sides too), but at least people know what the employees do.
Beppe come here to Stockholm and meet Dagens Nyheter journalists or "Kalla Fakta" guys , you would be shocked.....

Posted by: Gabriele Arrighetti | January 9, 2008 08:51 AM


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Posted by: barcelona chair | January 9, 2008 04:22 AM



Italians politicians are not stupid.
They simple are BAD and CORRUPT.
But all the West is not much better.
This is the advantage of China and Asia.

Some countries about 20 years ago made a revolution, reforms and correct some mistakes of past.
In the meantime other countries (the West)have destroyed antitrust, killed youngs ideas with Copyright and speculate with energy for greed of few OLD and BIG corporations.

For do this they have cut freedoms and made a BIG BROTHER style society.

There is much freedom in China today that in West.

Nothing new, Hindu religion said three thousand year ago that Ganesh (prosperity) is SON of Shiva (revolution).

So who need revolution today to return in the path of prosperity?

Posted by: fabrizio | January 9, 2008 01:19 AM


Beppe
Looks like our politicians, after screwing around for years with the taxpayer's money while literally burning away money which nobody knows where it went, like to send the army to quell the protests of citizens whose guilt is to not want to die of cancer.
What will happen next?
Prodi will form a new Gestapo to check on everybody?
The solutions are in front of everybody while our stupid politicians are looking elsewhere just to satisfact other interests.
Probably Kim Il Sung would thrive by meeting Prodi, just to give him more ideas on how to deal with the people.

Posted by: Giovanni Principe | January 8, 2008 11:00 PM


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